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Self and Hasty  
#1 Posted : 05 October 2022 14:03:52(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Self and Hasty

Hi all,

Production workers have complained that wood they are cutting has black mold on it and this is percieved by them as being very dangerous.

The production team cuts wood for manufacturing crates and has good controls for the commonly produced hazardous; wood dust, controls are deemed suitable for wood dust with minmal exposure.

Is black mold (Stachybotrys chartarum) 'more' dangerous than wood dust?

Are additional controls required? The LEV's mitigate wood dust to a sufficient level so face masks are not required, this would be the only additional control I can think of but feel it's likely unnecessary as exposure to mold is controlled by the existing controls for wood dust.

Thanks

Roundtuit  
#2 Posted : 05 October 2022 14:22:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

"more" is a relative term but in this case yes

mold releases spores that can travel or be carried back to the workers home causing breathing issues particularly in the vulnerable (asthmatics, COPD etc.) trasferring risk beyond the factory gates

mold is very prevalent in cold damp housing (current socio economic conditions will favour its growth)

the spores will be in constant circulation at your works especially each time the wood is moved and handled

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Self and Hasty on 05/10/2022(UTC), Self and Hasty on 05/10/2022(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 05 October 2022 14:22:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

"more" is a relative term but in this case yes

mold releases spores that can travel or be carried back to the workers home causing breathing issues particularly in the vulnerable (asthmatics, COPD etc.) trasferring risk beyond the factory gates

mold is very prevalent in cold damp housing (current socio economic conditions will favour its growth)

the spores will be in constant circulation at your works especially each time the wood is moved and handled

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Self and Hasty on 05/10/2022(UTC), Self and Hasty on 05/10/2022(UTC)
Self and Hasty  
#4 Posted : 05 October 2022 15:01:13(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Self and Hasty

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post

"more" is a relative term but in this case yes

mold releases spores that can travel or be carried back to the workers home causing breathing issues particularly in the vulnerable (asthmatics, COPD etc.) trasferring risk beyond the factory gates

mold is very prevalent in cold damp housing (current socio economic conditions will favour its growth)

the spores will be in constant circulation at your works especially each time the wood is moved and handled


Okay, so the LEVs that control the wood dust aren't sufficient.

Are face masks the solution or scrapping moldy wood rather than using it?

Thanks

A Kurdziel  
#5 Posted : 05 October 2022 15:35:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

deal with the hazard at source: get rid of the moldy wood. think about it-of you make a product from the moldy wood it will be moldy too and so on until someone buys it. 

Self and Hasty  
#6 Posted : 05 October 2022 15:54:26(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Self and Hasty

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post

deal with the hazard at source: get rid of the moldy wood. think about it-of you make a product from the moldy wood it will be moldy too and so on until someone buys it. 


That's exactly what I said but the company is penny pinching. preventative measures are being implemented for the timber store to weather proof and ventilate it mitigating mold growth on future stockpiles, but there are 20+tonnes with surface mold that they are reluctant to scrap.

I'll push for scrapping rather than respirators. Thanks

peter gotch  
#7 Posted : 05 October 2022 18:23:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Self and Hasty

To some extent it will depend on whether the mouldy wood will be treated.

Long, long time ago I spent a Summer working in a factory producing a very well known food product where the primary semi-solid ingredients was dates.

Said dates came in wooden crates.

Apparently the dates were typically bought about two years before and two years before there was an international wood shortage so the crates were made from rather poor wood.

As a result the crates were not very intact and lots of dates got mouldy.

But, we used them anyway. One of the bosses said words to the effect of "the customer will never notice".

AND he was right. These dates once into production were boiled in vinegar more than once. All mould would be stone dead.

But the other point, "mold" is a big issue in US litigation. There used to be at least one expert witness who basically made his entire living out of helping defend "mold" cases.

"Mould" has never found as much legal fame in the UK.

So, I think that you need to assess the risk largely as being separate from the dust, but my guess is that the risk is probably not as high as might be initially imagined.

thanks 1 user thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
Self and Hasty on 10/10/2022(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#8 Posted : 05 October 2022 20:49:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: Self and Hasty Go to Quoted Post
the company is penny pinching. there are 20+tonnes with surface mold that they are reluctant to scrap.

Well good luck keeping a lid on that one.... local press eventually pick up on issues in an area which is typically long after they have bounced around social media by which time the companies reputation has been shreded.

Mold on packaging is not suitable if the goods are leaving GB (even N.I. is now considered "overseas" thanks to the protocol) - as we are now a third country phytosanitary requirements apply to wooden packaging.

captcha tapp

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Self and Hasty on 10/10/2022(UTC), Self and Hasty on 10/10/2022(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#9 Posted : 05 October 2022 20:49:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: Self and Hasty Go to Quoted Post
the company is penny pinching. there are 20+tonnes with surface mold that they are reluctant to scrap.

Well good luck keeping a lid on that one.... local press eventually pick up on issues in an area which is typically long after they have bounced around social media by which time the companies reputation has been shreded.

Mold on packaging is not suitable if the goods are leaving GB (even N.I. is now considered "overseas" thanks to the protocol) - as we are now a third country phytosanitary requirements apply to wooden packaging.

captcha tapp

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Self and Hasty on 10/10/2022(UTC), Self and Hasty on 10/10/2022(UTC)
Self and Hasty  
#10 Posted : 10 October 2022 08:11:36(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Self and Hasty

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Self and Hasty Go to Quoted Post
the company is penny pinching. there are 20+tonnes with surface mold that they are reluctant to scrap.

Mold on packaging is not suitable if the goods are leaving GB (even N.I. is now considered "overseas" thanks to the protocol) - as we are now a third country phytosanitary requirements apply to wooden packaging.

That sounds a good route to argue as the company is exporting the crates made from the mouldy wood, what is this protocol/regualtion? I'll use it to insist it's scrapped.


Roundtuit  
#11 Posted : 10 October 2022 08:30:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Self and Hasty on 10/10/2022(UTC), Self and Hasty on 10/10/2022(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#12 Posted : 10 October 2022 08:30:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Self and Hasty on 10/10/2022(UTC), Self and Hasty on 10/10/2022(UTC)
chris42  
#13 Posted : 10 October 2022 08:51:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

And you can’t treat the mold spores why ? My understanding sunlight kills it, but I’m sure there are other ways.

A Kurdziel  
#14 Posted : 10 October 2022 09:22:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Forestry Commission are responsible for issue phytosanitary certificates-see here. They are mainly intended to prevent the export of  forestry pests. I am not sure if simply mouldy wood would count. Certain types of  mould produce toxins and the spores they produce can induce allergic reactions. It’s hard to tell just what the risk is but it could be serious. If the wood is being used to package products,  then to receiving country would be within its rights to refuse to accept the goods. Some countries are very twitchy about anything that looks contaminated, and others will let anything in!

But you should note that at the UK end that if any one in the factory was to develop an illness that could be traced back to the mouldy wood, they could be prosecuted (under COSHH at least).

I am not sure where the idea that mould will die if left in sunlight comes from  and  the issue with fungi is that it is easy to stop the growth of the main bit of the organisms but the spores are more resistant and they come back.

thanks 2 users thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
peter gotch on 10/10/2022(UTC), Self and Hasty on 10/10/2022(UTC)
chris42  
#15 Posted : 10 October 2022 13:46:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post

I am not sure where the idea that mould will die if left in sunlight comes from 


I got it from the internet a little while ago not for work or this question. It worked for me plus a little bleach to get into bits that could not be easily put into direct sunlight. My point was there has to be a way of treating it other than disposal.

Chris

Does sunlight get rid of black mold?

Yes. The type of ultraviolet light that can effectively get rid of mould is UV-C, which happens to be one of the three types of UV radiation produced by the sun. This is the reason sunlight is so effective at killing and preventing mould, and best of all, it does so without the need for harsh chemicals.

Roundtuit  
#16 Posted : 10 October 2022 14:38:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Bleach merely removes surface staining.

Mold has deep roots in porous surfaces such as wood and plaster so unless you kill the organism completely it will eventually reappear.

One method of preservation treatment for wood is through kiln drying.

Another is pressurised treatment which drives chemicals deep in to the wood.

Roundtuit  
#17 Posted : 10 October 2022 14:38:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Bleach merely removes surface staining.

Mold has deep roots in porous surfaces such as wood and plaster so unless you kill the organism completely it will eventually reappear.

One method of preservation treatment for wood is through kiln drying.

Another is pressurised treatment which drives chemicals deep in to the wood.

A Kurdziel  
#18 Posted : 10 October 2022 14:55:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

If this was rare wood intended to repair your Chippendale, of course you could find a method for treating the wood so that the fungus would disappear totally. I am surprised that nobody has suggested gamma radiation which would very effective but what we are talking about is cheap timber to make packing cases.  It’s nearly the 5th of November, so surely someone could think of a use for it.

thanks 2 users thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
peter gotch on 10/10/2022(UTC), Self and Hasty on 10/10/2022(UTC)
peter gotch  
#19 Posted : 10 October 2022 15:03:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

AK - please don't encourage even more unorganised fireworks displays!

chris42  
#20 Posted : 10 October 2022 15:50:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

A well-known DIY shop lists ply at 9mm x 2.4m x 1.2m at £30 and weighs 16.9 kg.

So, 20 tonnes of it would cost £35,500, can’t wait to see what fireworks you would put with that :0)

Obviously, the cost of treating it would need to be less than its replacement value plus the cost of disposal properly, but we do seem to live in a very throwaway society.

But I’m out now, it was only a suggestion.

Chris

PS you need a licence to burn waste!

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