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OBrien19434  
#1 Posted : 05 October 2022 13:18:38(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
OBrien19434

Hi all,

Does anyone know who/what organisation would be best placed to assess the flammability of these panels?  I'm advising that unless there is documentation they should be treated as potentially being flammable, make a plan to identify the location, speak to the insurer (if they arent the ones raising it) and the fire and rescue service during familiarisation visits.

I'm having some questions from clients.  The buildings I'm having enquiries about are not buildings used for housing and do not have many panels.  Any are external.

Just curious if anyone is getting similar enquires.

Thanks

Kate  
#2 Posted : 05 October 2022 13:39:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

This is surely the responsibility of the manufacturer of the panels!

There should be product data sheets - although as we learned during the Grenfell inquiry, such data sheets may not always be accurate.

Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 05 October 2022 14:03:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

You will need either an Approved Body (UKAS) or Notified Body (EU) to conduct Reaction to Fire Classification or Fire Performance (Resistance to collapse - load bearing, Resistance to fire penetration - Integrity, Resistance to heat transfer - Insulation) in relation to an installation.

https://www.gov.uk/uk-market-conformity-assessment-bodies

Start by tracing the builder or technical file so you know what material you are dealing with - then you can follow up with the product manufacturer as to any performance testing they may have had conducted.

If that does not work you will either have to sample from the construction (will need some BIG holes cutting) or somehow source unknown materials (beware of using something that "looks the same").

Testing is NOT cheap, and with limited UK facilities currently overwhelmed by the switch from CE to UKCA along with the backlog of verifications going through in consequence of Grenfell not something you would get conducted this year or early next year.

Can I suggest you hand such matters to a specialist - the actual tests are significantly more complex than the shock and awe imagery used on TV of a blow torch being held to the edge of a composite panel.

thanks 4 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 05/10/2022(UTC), peter gotch on 05/10/2022(UTC), A Kurdziel on 05/10/2022(UTC), peter gotch on 05/10/2022(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#4 Posted : 05 October 2022 14:03:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

You will need either an Approved Body (UKAS) or Notified Body (EU) to conduct Reaction to Fire Classification or Fire Performance (Resistance to collapse - load bearing, Resistance to fire penetration - Integrity, Resistance to heat transfer - Insulation) in relation to an installation.

https://www.gov.uk/uk-market-conformity-assessment-bodies

Start by tracing the builder or technical file so you know what material you are dealing with - then you can follow up with the product manufacturer as to any performance testing they may have had conducted.

If that does not work you will either have to sample from the construction (will need some BIG holes cutting) or somehow source unknown materials (beware of using something that "looks the same").

Testing is NOT cheap, and with limited UK facilities currently overwhelmed by the switch from CE to UKCA along with the backlog of verifications going through in consequence of Grenfell not something you would get conducted this year or early next year.

Can I suggest you hand such matters to a specialist - the actual tests are significantly more complex than the shock and awe imagery used on TV of a blow torch being held to the edge of a composite panel.

thanks 4 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 05/10/2022(UTC), peter gotch on 05/10/2022(UTC), A Kurdziel on 05/10/2022(UTC), peter gotch on 05/10/2022(UTC)
OBrien19434  
#5 Posted : 06 October 2022 14:21:06(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
OBrien19434

Thanks, I am trying to direct the client to a specialist (as I am most definetely not one in panel composition), can't find any in Northern Ireland.

Yes the manufacturer should provide data sheets, however, this is quite an old building and they cant be traced.  Hence the advice i've given the client to treat as containing combustible materials until testing can be carried out.

Does anyone know anyone in NI or UK who will test?  

Thanks again.

Roundtuit  
#6 Posted : 06 October 2022 15:54:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

http://www.buildingcontrol-ni.com/regulations/technical-booklets

Technical Booklet E is the N.I. equivalent of Approved Document B for Fire Safety and should be read in conjunction with AMD7 of April 2022 which included "Relevant Buildings" and the concept of over 18m

Table 5.1 shows the required Reaction to Fire Classifications for external walls dependent upon building use, height and distance to a relevant boundary ranging from A2-s1,d0 through to E-d2

A2 materials are considered to be of "Limited Combustibilty" whilst anything lower (B - E) is combustible but may still be in accordance with the tabulated requirements

You likley have three questions to answer before investing in specialists & testing:

1) What is the buildings use?

2) How tall is the building?

3) How far is the wall from a relevant boundary?

Roundtuit  
#7 Posted : 06 October 2022 15:54:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

http://www.buildingcontrol-ni.com/regulations/technical-booklets

Technical Booklet E is the N.I. equivalent of Approved Document B for Fire Safety and should be read in conjunction with AMD7 of April 2022 which included "Relevant Buildings" and the concept of over 18m

Table 5.1 shows the required Reaction to Fire Classifications for external walls dependent upon building use, height and distance to a relevant boundary ranging from A2-s1,d0 through to E-d2

A2 materials are considered to be of "Limited Combustibilty" whilst anything lower (B - E) is combustible but may still be in accordance with the tabulated requirements

You likley have three questions to answer before investing in specialists & testing:

1) What is the buildings use?

2) How tall is the building?

3) How far is the wall from a relevant boundary?

Stefan Healey  
#8 Posted : 06 October 2022 15:57:06(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Stefan Healey

I have a similar situation with our warehouse, it is also a very old building with 5 extensions added onto it over time, the first section is polystyrene panelling, and the other 4 are Hemsec 1-hour resistant panels with 20 mill worth of product.

Our insurers have always been a little concerned with the panels however the cost of the inspections and the cost of replacements is huge, from a recent RRO audit and also an underwriter visit, both parties are happy providing we complete weekly panel inspection checks and shorten the fixed wire inspection regime to 3 years, obviously, location, contents and usage will affect your own situation but this is how we negotiated it.

OBrien19434  
#9 Posted : 10 October 2022 13:49:22(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
OBrien19434

Thanks guys.

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