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andrewjb1  
#1 Posted : 19 October 2022 08:29:45(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
andrewjb1

Good Morning

A simple one, but i would be interested to hear your views, what the legal stance is with regards to liability if there was an accident with an employee or visitor to the workplace that used equipment bought in from home by an employee, something simple for example like a microwave, kettle or fridge.  

Historically staff have bough tin microwaves, toasters and kettles and although we PAT test electrical equipment we haven't provided it.  Does it make a difference and is the staff member bringing in the equipment also exposed to a personal injury claim if they provided it?

Thanks

Andrew

antbruce001  
#2 Posted : 19 October 2022 12:50:12(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
antbruce001

Andrew,

The simple answer is that it doesn't matter who provided the equipment, if it is used for work purposes (and that includes meeting t welfare provisions) then the Employer has to treat it as such. To that end, PUWER applies and so does the Electricity at Work Regs with the employer carrying the legal duties for compliance. As the law applies, so does the potential civil liability. However, the civil liability on the 'employer' is less cut and dry than it was, as the tort of 'Breach of  Statutory Duty' has been removed in most cases, so any claim will have to be brought under the tort of 'Negligence' which is likely to place some of the liability back on whoever brought it in. 

It is essential to recognise this. You should have management measures that prevent people from bringing in their own equipment or provide adequate controls to ensure compliance going forward. 

Hope it helps,

Tony.

peter gotch  
#3 Posted : 19 October 2022 14:29:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi  Andrew

To add to what Tony has said, no sensible solicitor would advise their client to spend much time on taking action against a worker who had brought a bit of domestic kitchen equipment into the workplace, when they can sue the employer when something goes wrong.

One has insurances and resources, the other has only their home (if they own it) and whatever is in their bank account etc.

Now, suppose the microwave is very frquently used in the workplace, it might easily not be designed and sold for such use.

It's a bit like going in to B&Q to buy a stepladder. The one which is fine for use at home may NOT be fine at work. Different usage, even different British Standards.

Roundtuit  
#4 Posted : 19 October 2022 18:00:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Bad example given EN 131 is the standard for ladders in two classes Professional and Non-professional.

Domestic kit may be fine for the home, possibly at a push a small office anything beyond that and it really needs to be purchased to fit its intended duty.

To be honest the low cost of such white goods it would benefit the employer to purchase them and then have control of the guarantee.

Roundtuit  
#5 Posted : 19 October 2022 18:00:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Bad example given EN 131 is the standard for ladders in two classes Professional and Non-professional.

Domestic kit may be fine for the home, possibly at a push a small office anything beyond that and it really needs to be purchased to fit its intended duty.

To be honest the low cost of such white goods it would benefit the employer to purchase them and then have control of the guarantee.

chris42  
#6 Posted : 21 October 2022 08:22:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Extract from INDG244 Workplace health, safety and Welfare

Where provided, eating facilities should include a facility for preparing or obtaining a hot drink. Where hot food cannot be obtained in or reasonably near to the workplace, workers may need to be provided with a means for heating their own food (eg microwave oven).

So, the question is not who is liable, but why do employees feel it is necessary to bring these items in that should be provided by the company? Is it not provided or not enough provided or is it people bringing in their old stuff to get rid of it. Problem is if it is old, but still working, then the question is for how long? Then it ends up as the company’s responsibility to dispose of as hazardous waste due to the electronics. (or you cheat and get employees to take it to the local tip as if they are getting rid of their own items not business waste – very naughty).

Chris

thanks 1 user thanked chris42 for this useful post.
andrewcl on 04/11/2022(UTC)
HSSnail  
#7 Posted : 21 October 2022 13:05:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Originally Posted by: chris42 Go to Quoted Post

Extract from INDG244 Workplace health, safety and Welfare

Where provided, eating facilities should include a facility for preparing or obtaining a hot drink. Where hot food cannot be obtained in or reasonably near to the workplace, workers may need to be provided with a means for heating their own food (eg microwave oven).

So, the question is not who is liable, but why do employees feel it is necessary to bring these items in that should be provided by the company? 

Chris

I have seen loads of places where people bring thier own equipment in even though there is a sandwhich shop just next door. Usualy down to cost, but you could argue its not needed under workplace regs.

PUWER obviously applies to work equipment, so if the making of lunch is not a work activity it may not be covered, then there is always a question about do the people using it know its not provided by the company. To be honest ignoreing the potential for actual legal requirements, i have found  if people want to heat up food in the workplace, the cost of providing a microwave and adding it to your electrical safety system is uslay so insignificant its easer to provide than to keep trying to remove the stuff people bring in.

cf625707  
#8 Posted : 28 October 2022 21:05:13(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
cf625707

This might help  Electrical safety (hse.gov.uk)  

ianm69  
#9 Posted : 02 November 2022 14:12:01(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ianm69

Good question, which we all come across (this not unusual situation). I agree with the many replies, especially 'why does the employee need to bring in their own equipment?'. The reality is, if its operated at work, it becomes the employers responsibility to accept it and ensure suitable to use, or not accept it and provide an alternative solution.  In adition, the employer must question and provide sensible guidance on acceptable use e.g., is there a reason why your infra-red heater is warning your feet and cloth bag under your desk?  Hope this builds on others points of expereince. 

andrewjb1  
#10 Posted : 14 November 2022 17:33:16(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
andrewjb1

Thank you everyone, some interesting comments and indeed a problem common to many workplaces.  Its always the simple things that cause the problems!

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