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Kate  
#1 Posted : 16 November 2022 19:11:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

That's nonsense.  If it was important to capture seasonal variations you would be doing it every 3 months.

Just think of it as an annual check with some leeway.

John D C  
#2 Posted : 16 November 2022 19:33:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
John D C

For fourteen months think annual. In the days of early H&S law in mills etc there was a requirement to service boilers once a year. This was a problem as the boilers worked non stop and the only time they stopped working was at Easter. Easter is a movable feast that can move up to two months so in order to help the annual service became 14 months. The COSHH regs were the last regs to use 14 months as now annual means every 12 .months.
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A Kurdziel on 17/11/2022(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 16 November 2022 21:16:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: johnc Go to Quoted Post
the only time they stopped working was at Easter

They stopped for the local wakes week or Trades Fortnight - if everyone stopped at Easter there were not enough engineers available in the country for the servicing required so the towns and nations staggered their closures.

Roundtuit  
#4 Posted : 16 November 2022 21:16:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: johnc Go to Quoted Post
the only time they stopped working was at Easter

They stopped for the local wakes week or Trades Fortnight - if everyone stopped at Easter there were not enough engineers available in the country for the servicing required so the towns and nations staggered their closures.

Kate  
#5 Posted : 17 November 2022 02:07:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Well don't I look stupid now that the original post to which I was replying has been deleted.

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peter gotch on 17/11/2022(UTC)
mickpaulpeo  
#6 Posted : 17 November 2022 06:30:03(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
mickpaulpeo

Post deleted guys due to the answer regarding testing being '12 months with a 2 month leeway'.

Please base answers on either knowlege or experience, not opinion.

Ridiculus answer , where in any of the regulations do they include a 'leeway'. Applying that logic would make the testing for dust or fume produced from non - ferrous metal castings 8 months ????

I did find the following in the archive from this forum which supported my original statement.

https://forum.iosh.co.uk/posts/t83475-Why-is-LEV-inspection-specified-as--at-least-every-14-months

Edited by user 17 November 2022 06:36:41(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Roundtuit  
#7 Posted : 17 November 2022 08:34:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: mickpaulpeo Go to Quoted Post
Please base answers on either knowlege or experience, not opinion.

From the header of the forum: Postings made by forum users are personal opinions.

Roundtuit  
#8 Posted : 17 November 2022 08:34:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: mickpaulpeo Go to Quoted Post
Please base answers on either knowlege or experience, not opinion.

From the header of the forum: Postings made by forum users are personal opinions.

A Kurdziel  
#9 Posted : 17 November 2022 09:42:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Wakes week occurred at Whitsun which is also known as Pentecost, and it is always the 7th  Sunday after Easter, so it too is a movable feast and traditionally workers took that week off. In mill towns it was an opportunity to service the machinery including the extraction systems used to  control  cotton dust. As the date of Whitsun was movable the miller were allowed leeway as to when they tested and serviced their LEV. This was written into the Factory Act and carried over into COSHH.

Since 1971, Whitsun has been replaced as a Bank Holiday by the Late May Bank Holiday.

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chris42 on 17/11/2022(UTC)
chris42  
#10 Posted : 17 November 2022 09:47:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post

Wakes week occurred at Whitsun which is also known as Pentecost, and it is always the 7th  Sunday after Easter, so it too is a movable feast and traditionally workers took that week off. In mill towns it was an opportunity to service the machinery including the extraction systems used to  control  cotton dust. As the date of Whitsun was movable the miller were allowed leeway as to when they tested and serviced their LEV. This was written into the Factory Act and carried over into COSHH.

Since 1971, Whitsun has been replaced as a Bank Holiday by the Late May Bank Holiday.

This was also my understanding. Also, Pressure Vessels are every 26 months not 24 months

antbruce001  
#11 Posted : 17 November 2022 13:08:38(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
antbruce001

My understanding of the 14 month frequency for LEV is that as you are only considered to have undertaken the test once the system passes the examination, and some time is built in for repairs. The examination should be done 12 monthly which allows you to legally continue to use the system for up to 2 months whilst the system is repaired without the need to stop the process. Unlike other equipment, like lifting equipment simply not using the equipment will increase the risk to workers. An LEV system not functioning at design capacity (which is what it is supposed to be assessed against - not just a few measured face velocity readings) may well still be providing a significant reduction in the potential levels of exposure received by workers. It may even be providing sufficient extraction to reduce the exposure levels to below any given exposure limit. However, if the examination finds a significant reduction in performance, then temporary additional controls, for example the use of PPE may be required. 

If you choose to have the examination every 14 months, then you can run into significant legal compliance issues should the examination fail.

Tony.

Bigmac1  
#12 Posted : 17 November 2022 13:32:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Bigmac1

My understanding is for differntials in air pressure throughout the year over a 5 year period. 

Ask yourself this, why are records kept for 5 years?

Why does it only apply to LEV? Why is all thorough examinations 12 months aprt from LEV? To this end and if it was to do with Easter and factories shutting down, everything would be 14 monthly but it aint.

pseudonym  
#13 Posted : 17 November 2022 13:49:22(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
pseudonym

My thoughts on this - if seasonal variation was deemed to be important, the legislators would have ensured that this was taken into account - and they didn't. 

We're asked to test at not greater than 14 monthly intervals - loads of people actually test at around about 12 monthly because its easier to plan for that, if seasonal variation was key they would have stopped you doing this? If we wanted to we could test as often as we like, as long as we don't exceed 14 months - which as some have already pointed out fits in neatly with moveable feasts like Easter and Witsun .. there may still be some organisations that can only shut down & test on these dates (I doubt it, but you never know) and so the 14 month rule has been left in (or too much like hard work to change it?)

Short answer is that we're all making assumptions and deep down none of us really ​​​​​​​know the answer

A Kurdziel  
#14 Posted : 17 November 2022 14:56:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Yes, its as they say a legacy issue in the modern sense; people do something in a particular way because they have always done it in a particular way, and the way works, and nothing is gained by changing this and its probably hard work to change it. Remember that  this rule was introduced at least 100 years ago for people working int’mills and now we have no mills and no wakes week, but the rule stays in place.

Of course the powers that be could have been waiting for the  Easter Act 1928 to come into force. This Act fixed Easter by law as being “Easter Sunday as the Sunday following the second Saturday in April” , which would also have fixed the date of  Whitsun but at the last minute fearing opposition from ALL of the churches the government did not commence the law.

peter gotch  
#15 Posted : 17 November 2022 17:50:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

MickPaul - in ye olden days when all this was covered by the Factories Act 1961 and previous legislation, different parts of the country had their shutdowns (called "The Fair" in Scotland) at different times.

So the insurance company engineers (rarely anybody else) would do all the steam boilers, steam receivers and air receivers in say Glasgow in Glasgow Fair (3rd and 4th weeks in July) while everybody working in the factories had changed pub to say Blackpool.

When that Fair was done and dusted the insurance company engineers would move on to wherever had the next Fair fortnight.

Kept said insurance people in employment for months over a long Summer season of thorough examinations.

The law said 14 and 26 months which meant annually or every other year but gave some of what has been described on this thread as "leeway". There was always the odd bit of plant that might fall through the net.

This is not "opinion" - if you look you will be able to find lots of historical references to The Fair and similar terms!

Kate  
#16 Posted : 18 November 2022 16:44:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

This post contains only facts and no opinions.

The Met Office divide the year (consisting of twelve months) into four seasons, each of three months.  Of these, summer has the highest average temperature and winter the lowest, with the intervening periods of spring and autumn having intermediate average temperatures.

Some things which are monitored are subject to seasonal variation.  Examples are energy consumption, ambient temperatures and the prevalence of respiratory infections.

These kinds of seasonally varying things are measured either continuously or at intervals during the twelve-month year, and if an average is required, this is taken from an even sampling across a twelve-month period.  This is done in order to account for seasonal variation.

12 months + 2 months = 14 months.  Therefore, if you wish for something to be done at approximately annual intervals but are not bothered about what time of year it is done at, and are content to allow a leeway of two months, your requirement can be expressed by specifying that the thing must be done at intervals of no more than 14 months.

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