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LewisFNudd  
#1 Posted : 16 December 2022 11:08:49(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
LewisFNudd

Hi,

Looking for some help on the enquiry below, if anybody would be so kind to help please:

Question:

If you have a designated HCA area for use in the event of flammable atmosphere being created by flammable liquids used for specific applications, can that area also be used without the ATEX equipment when no such flammable substances are present?

As an example - if we wanted to store freshwater IBC's in the HCA area and use non ATEX pumping equipment, would that be ok?

From everything I have read, it seems like it would be fine. However, I am reaching out to see if anyone has had a similar issue and can state definitely if this is allowed? From a Risk perspective, there is no fuel for which an ignition source could spark so any fire risk is non-existent.

Many Thanks

Kate  
#2 Posted : 16 December 2022 11:52:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Do you have a process to remove the ignition sources before the flammable atmosphere is created?

thanks 1 user thanked Kate for this useful post.
LewisFNudd on 16/12/2022(UTC)
antbruce001  
#3 Posted : 16 December 2022 12:19:34(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
antbruce001

Lewis,

A Zoned area is always a Zoned area. You do not (should not) have temporary or occasional Zoned areas. You can use things like PTW to manage the risks for very short term work activities which required the use of potential ignition sources.

If you have a Zoned area, then you must use suitably protected electrical equipment (EX-rated) if it enters the Zone. What is to stop the fuel from being reintroduced whilst the the non-protected electrical equipment is in the area?

If you have changed the use of the area (permanently) so that flammables (or combustible powders) are not to be used in the area then you can declassify the area as a Zone and do what you want. Should decide to re-establish the activity that gave rise to the Zoning, then you will need to redo the HAC assessment and get it validated by a competent person before you restart the process. 

Hope it helps.

Tony.

thanks 1 user thanked antbruce001 for this useful post.
LewisFNudd on 16/12/2022(UTC)
John Elder  
#4 Posted : 19 December 2022 11:25:10(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John Elder

Lewis

Hazardous Areas are not always hazardous. Some area classificaitons are localised within a room and only apply around a certain operations and equipment such as container filling in a certain position within the room. In this instance the container filling operation is what is calssified and not the room itself. 

If this is what is happening in your case and no flammables are in the area then there is no issue.

If the room itself is classified then you could consider a statement on the drawing such as only present whilst flammables are being stored in the area otherwise treat as non hazardous. (Note i would only consider this for a Zone 2 or Zone 22 area as any other type of zone suggests the frequency of a flammable atmospheres liklehood is to high to be worth taking the risk)

Porviding you have a purcedure to remove any ignition sources prior to flammables being reintroduced to the area then it isnt an issue.

antbruce001  
#5 Posted : 20 December 2022 07:48:09(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
antbruce001

John,

I think you are incorrect in a number of areas.

"Hazardous Areas are not always hazardous. " Although this may be true; a Hazardous Area is always a Hazardous Area until it is formally declassified. DSEAR does not mention the possibility of temporary zones. 

"In this instance, the container filling operation is what is calssified and not the room itself. " The original question related just to a Hazardous Area and made no reference to the scope of the Zone. However, presumably, a competent person has made the assessment therefore we are not in a position to question the Zoning of the area.

"If the room itself is classified then you could consider a statement on the drawing such as only present whilst flammables are being stored in the area otherwise treat as non hazardous." Again DSEAR does not allow for this. 

Lewis,

I would refer you back to my original response to your question. The information in that post I believe is correct and in line with DSEAR and its ACoP. I undertake DSEAR / HAC assessments on behalf of clients and it reflects the advice I provide to them.

Tony.

John Elder  
#6 Posted : 20 December 2022 08:17:11(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John Elder

Tony

We beg to differ in our opinions in the advice that has been given.

DSEAR HAC and Risk Assessment is all i do for a living.

But like everything else you can put two consultants in the same room looking at the same thing and get two different answers.

Ian Bell2  
#7 Posted : 20 December 2022 18:45:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

If you have an area that is effectively dual use - non ATEX work and ATEX work, then you need a management procedure to cover the work possibilites.

ATEX materials and work processes being undertaken - electrical equipment only permitted of the correct specification depending on the dangerous substances and control/removal of igniton sources.

Non ATEX work e.g. the water filled IBCs. Clearly no ATEX requirement, but you should have a clear management procedure to de classify the area, even is only temporarily.

Mixed use - then ATEX applies and the equipment requirements as per option 1.

Another full time DSEAR assessor

thanks 1 user thanked Ian Bell2 for this useful post.
peter gotch on 21/12/2022(UTC)
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