Most of the sites/company's I've worked on where subcontractors are used it is written into the subcontractor company contract who the client has placed the work with, (ie you), whether you can or cannot sub-subcontract the work, or if you do the responsibility and liability remains with you.

Check your contract with your client perhaps.

Either way, your agreement/contract with your sub-subcontractor should/could stipulate minimum standards of competency, training scheme certification etc which you could be reasonably expected to rely on them being adhered to by your sub-subcontractor. And you're doing, you say, spot checks and audits as due diligence. although annually could be seen as too long as you have already identified the transient nature of the sub-subcontractors workforce

But I feel that the client will come to you in the event of any incident/accident as their contract for the works is with you.

Thanks for the replies,

Yes, a client would undoubtedly look to the company due to contractual arrangements.

I am going to chase up the contracts department on this to make checks on whether there is an agreement in place to ensure they are aware of the expectations placed on making sure their 'employees' maintain their competencies.

The price for the subbys is incorporated into the price quoted to the customer as we know what the subby gangs charge per day for their services and use that when pricing jobs.

With regards to more than annual assessment, it is not always practical to do.  Even the many SSIP bodies only generally chase up annually.   The expectation is that a company maintains its standards.

It is interesting that there is no definitive answer as regards HSE involvement, seems to be a bit of might do this or that.

With regards to having a highler level of control, have to be careful there not to be seen controlling and directing the subbys as this could fall foul of HMRC systems and procedures.

There is a bit of a line there to traverse.

With regards to the annual checks potentially not being enough, we are not in the business of micro managing our subcontractors.  We do expect them to be professional, whatever their turnover of staff is.

Cheers

B

The type of work the RAMS are being written for is for a product which our company specialise in.  The contracts supervisors who create the RAMS have many years experience installing the exact same product lines on site.  We do not create RAMS for any work that we do not have experience with.

The RAMS template is fully editable in terms of site address, specific hazards (although approx 90%) of the hazards are similar on any given site unless there is something specific i.e lifting close to railway lines etc.  

The RAMS are always site specific and there is also a section which can be updated on the day of the work, say due to extreme weather or some other hazard which was not apparent at the time of the initial visit.

The only difference in terms of actually carrying out the work is that we do not have our own employees to do the work as these were laid off some years ago.  The writing of the RAMS would be the same If we had our own installers.

I agree with most of the comments coming in, thanks for the input.  Its always useful to get others takes on a situation.  

Cheers

B

Originally Posted by: Self and Hasty

If a engineer they've sent does not have the required competency; they don't work 

Meanwhile in the real world where on-site maintenance has long since been contracted to large nationals as supposed cost saving against the use of local independents following the previous removal of direct employees.. you end up with an electrician to fix a dripping tap and a joiner to install a socket - but its all right because facilities have the supplier input form and verified copies of RAMS on file.

In simple terms

The Company is the one I work for.

The Company get a job - construction based product supply and installation following a tender and estimates, quotes supplied to the client/main contractor

The Company The Company contacts site, pre-let meetings etc to sort out when, where, payment terms etc.

The job is planned according to when the client wants the product i.e when the site is lkely to be ready.

Approx a week or 2 before the job - The Company 'contract supervisors'  - our guys with many years experience installing the product and with the relevant qualifications to plan the work i.e appointed person for cranes, relevant CSCS and CPCS cards go to the site.  The contract supervisors then tour the site, look at where the crane is going to sit.  Agree crane positons, delivery times, type of fall protection to be used.  Any scaffolding requirements, agree welfare,  agree start dates, time on site and induction details etc.

All of this information is recorded on a site installation plan, risk assessments and method statements.

A day or so before the job, confirmation is obtained from site that it is ready for the installation to commence.  

The subcontractor installers are then contacted (to be fair this is likely a week or so before the job for planning purposes).

On the day of the install, the subby installers will go to site, receive an induction,  read the RAMS, sign the acknowledgement to say they have read it and understand the content and will work in accordance with the RAMS.

The subbys will also hand over copies of their certification to the client/main contractor for the site records.

Subby foreman conducts a pre-start check of the work area to double check that the install can start safely and to identify any potnetial problems which may crop up later.

Crane gets set up, deliveries arrive, product is installed etc.

thats pretty much it.

If there is anyone who can go to site (this is nationwide stuff) then there may be a safety inspection carried out.

We also get feedback from the client in the form of a completion sheet stating the job, any outtanding works and the performance of the subbys in terms of safety, quality of work, attitude etc.