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Pirellipete  
#1 Posted : 24 February 2023 09:02:53(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Pirellipete

So,

Operative leaves site stating they've hurt their back, advised the supervisor, instructed to report to H & S for Accident book etc

Doesn't report to H & S, emails in their account of events two days later with names of co-workers with him at the time.

Investigation discovers that the 'IP's' account of events, including presence of co-workers at the location and time of the event are different to the witness statements of the event, who weren't even at the location at that time.

This will likely run over a 7-Day absence, so is it RIDDOR or a potential Disciplinary

Evans38004  
#2 Posted : 24 February 2023 09:13:04(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Evans38004

Based on the limited information given, which may need further investigating (more rope to ...) - it would currently appear to me as a disciplinary. 

It appears from the statement that the IP is fabricating at least some of his story

Kate  
#3 Posted : 24 February 2023 09:28:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

It's not either/or - it is perfectly possible for an incident to lead to both a RIDDOR report and discplinary action.

Lying about the circumstances of an incident does not automatically disqualify it from being RIDDOR reportable. It is only on the facts that you can decide whether it is reportable.

chris42  
#4 Posted : 24 February 2023 09:51:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Whether or not it is RIDDOR is dependant on what he claims was the cause of the injury, not if there were or were not witnesses. Does he claim there was a specific event or are they saying that this was due to a build up over a long period of time. If the former, then it is reportable if the latter it is not. You have not provided enough info for any of us to advise (or even for you to decide). As Kate notes it may be both RIDDOR and disciplinary. Not following company procedure for accidents isn’t a good start, regarding disciplinary.

Jonny95  
#5 Posted : 24 February 2023 09:56:37(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Jonny95

I agree with Chris, a bad back could just be that and not an actual reportable event, i would follow process as normal for the injury and treat the conduct investigation as a seperate entity for now, i'd carry out a resasonble investigationg before assuming an employee is lying or exaggerating an injury. 

MrBrightside  
#6 Posted : 24 February 2023 11:29:31(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
MrBrightside

From the HSE:

Injuries themselves, eg 'feeling a sharp twinge', are not accidents. There must be an identifiable external event that causes the injury, eg a falling object striking someone. Cumulative exposures to hazards, which eventually cause injury (eg repetitive lifting), are not classed as 'accidents' under RIDDOR.

Its really difficult to prove that a bad back was a result of something that happend at work. 9 time out of 10 its a pre-exsiting injury.

peter gotch  
#7 Posted : 24 February 2023 15:32:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Pete, to some extent I am inclined to play Devil's Advocate here!

"Operative leaves site stating they've hurt their back, advised the supervisor, instructed to report to H & S for Accident book etc

Doesn't report to H & S, emails in their account of events two days later with names of co-workers with him at the time."

What does your organisation's policies say about who reports to the dreaded H&S?

....and if it is down to the injured person (however injured and to what severity of injury) does the policy set down a timescale. Do you actually expect someone in hospital with a broken leg (as example) to report to H&S before getting in the ambulance or would an email two days later be fine?

Isn't it the role of the supervisor to elevate the information given to H&S?

"Investigation discovers that the 'IP's' account of events, including presence of co-workers at the location and time of the event are different to the witness statements of the event, who weren't even at the location at that time."

This smells a tad fishy! 

Why would the IP make up their understanding of who was around when their reported accident occurred, if an investigation is going to conclude that a different narrative is going to appear?

The reported incident and thence injury is unlikely to be dependent on needing some witnesses to identify in the IP's email.

Now I can think of loads of reasons why you might have this discrepancy. As example may be the witnesses SHOULD have been around but were not..The IP COULD have been trying to cover for them, not realising that they would come clean when asked!!

You alone are never likely to have enough information to conclude that this absence resulted from a pre-existing injury.

Personally I would go with the route of trusting what the IP says until you have solid evidence to the contrary.

What message does it give the workforce if you start from a position of doubting what one of your workers (complete with injury) tells you? - will the next victim simply not bother? [LOTS of history of similar happening across the Globe!!]

Is one more on your number of RIDDORs a game changer?

You report. Is HSE or other enforcing authority going to investigate? On the strong balance of probabilities NO.

You have the opportunity to consider whether there is room for improvement. May be there is, may be not. But why waste the opportunity by trying to deny what is reported?

thanks 1 user thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
willbowden on 01/03/2023(UTC)
peter gotch  
#8 Posted : 09 March 2023 11:20:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

I do wonder how many people might manage to accidentally click on a link that is so well hidden that usually I can't see it!!

P

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