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WatsonD  
#1 Posted : 04 April 2023 13:54:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

Regarding DSE training. The regs state that relevant staff  (i.e. users) should be trained. All training providers suggest this should be renewed every 12 months. Is this best practice, or needless cash spent?

Now I know that changes in circumstances will necessitate a new assessement - which may also benefit from renewed training to jog people memories, but by-and-large I dont really see why this would simply need to be repeated otherwise.

The only thing I can think of is to maybe stop people falling into bad habits, but a few initiatives, notification and timely reminders would suffice in my book - though I do owork for a company where this would be easy to action.

I would be interested to get the opinion of others, take the temperature in the (for)room so to speak.

Edited by user 04 April 2023 14:28:32(UTC)  | Reason: spelling

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peter gotch on 04/04/2023(UTC)
Holliday42333  
#2 Posted : 04 April 2023 14:18:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Holliday42333

To be perfectly honest, in my opinion the DSE Regs are hopelessly outdated and not fit for purpose any more.

The risks were not that great when the Regs were introduced (unknown rather than significant) and have proven in the main to be unfounded.  Lets face it the world of DSE is unrecognisable from the days of integrated screens/keyboards (Commodore PET anyone?) that were in use when the regs were introduced.

Other than some general 'idealised posture' information at regualr intervals I wouldn't bother.  Certainly the refresher inducements from training providers are just an unnecessary cost.

I cant imagine there is ANY energy in HSE to enforce these regs anymore and risk will be massively clouded by ubiquotous hand held device use.

Hopefully this is one of the regs that gets swept away by the otherwise poorly concieved The Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill 2022.

Note: In no way am I denying that some people have real musculoskeletal issues from DSE use, that some employers do not provide appropriate equipment for long duration use or that while the risk are small the cumulative effect of thousands of users could amount to a significant problem.

Edited by user 04 April 2023 14:27:38(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 4 users thanked Holliday42333 for this useful post.
Locoperro2023 on 04/04/2023(UTC), A Kurdziel on 04/04/2023(UTC), peter gotch on 04/04/2023(UTC), Kate on 05/04/2023(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#3 Posted : 04 April 2023 15:54:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Training providers always say that you need refresher training because that is how they make their money. It is unlikely that if you do  something regularly  like using a computer workstation  you forget how to do it. You may develop bad habits but that is down to  down to management to manage. In most cases most people know what they need to do most of the time.  The regs are over applied in most cases. It really boils down to asking  users if they are happy with their set up. Of course in some organisations the rule is “Put up and shut up”  and I am not sure it these regs (or any H&S regs)  actually help staff.

thanks 1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
Kate on 05/04/2023(UTC)
peter gotch  
#4 Posted : 04 April 2023 16:47:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi WatsonD

At the risk of being stamped on by the Compliance Officers, I would list DSE as just about the absolute bottom priority!

Communicating to those working at MOST workstations does NOT need a training course, and certainly not regular refresher training.

The rules are fairly simple and can be dealt with by giving MOST staff a simple template to remind them of the basics and to prompt them to get additional things that they MIGHT need, e.g. a document holder.

The days when people sat at desks with seats that are not adjustable went out of the window decades ago, except in the odd dinosaur organisation who is entirely disinterested in complying with any health and safety legislation.

hopeful  
#5 Posted : 05 April 2023 07:48:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
hopeful

We have an online course which we ask people to complete before doing their first assessment. We only ask them to redo it if there are issues. It has been really important now we have hybrid workers as it is making them aware of the issues that could be happening by working off the sofa, dining room table etc. It has also proved useful to support staff who are having issues in getting them to look at how they use their equipment and make adjustments which have helped them.

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WatsonD on 06/04/2023(UTC)
WatsonD  
#6 Posted : 06 April 2023 08:23:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

This was intended just as a post to get a feel of what others do in their organisations. I don't necessarily like the DSE regs either but it is not within our gift to decide which regulations to simply ignore.

The regulations specifically state training - I wanted to know how that was interpreted in the case of DSE as opposed to say, working at heights. If we are potentiall looking at an employee of a 20 year career would a 10 minute video or one page pamphlet suffice.

Thank you to all those who answered.

A Kurdziel  
#7 Posted : 06 April 2023 10:06:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

OK let’s look at the regulations which of course date back to the 6 pack in 1992. Even then they seemed to be looking back to the early days of personal computing 10 years earlier.

The requirement for adequate H&S training( reg 6 ) does not describe be what this training involves or what adequate actually means. It also says that only “users” require this training.  Reg 1 sates that a user is  “user” means an employee who habitually uses display screen equipment as a significant part of his normal work;

If you look at the Guidance (L26), which was last updated in 2003 it tries to restrict the definition of “user” to a smallish group of people. It mentions typists as being definitely users, receptionists probably are not. I have not  seen a pure bred typist in 20 years: as species they are extinct. Most organisations that apply DSE tend to take a blanket  approach and everybody I who uses a computer is treated as if they are a user. Those that don’t think about DSE  do not provide anything for anyone.  This of course provides massive   a opportunity for any offering “ adequate training” and refresher training is probably money for old rope. When the regs were conceived computers were for many people   a slightly scary novelty, so “training”  them probably made sense but nowadays its more to do with asking people if they are comfortable and reminding to take breaks which they are entitled to do. Some employers think that if they supply enough training and kit, they can get workers who will be able to sit in front of a screen for 8 hours non-stop. That is the way to store up loads of problems. And anyway in 10 to 15 years time the idea of sitting in front of screen typing will be as old hat as using a quill.

Roundtuit  
#8 Posted : 06 April 2023 12:21:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Since starting to use computers at work (just as the company typist was added to the endangered employments list) I have been at eight employers during which time I have filled three self assessment forms, the last of these was completed seven years ago at the last change of employer.

The only "training" during that whole period was a "setting up your work station" cine film right back at the start of the regulations (pre YouTube) and some abstracts of HSE literature when we all got sent to Work From Home during the public health event HM gov decided was a company H&S issue a couple of years ago.

Most of the employments following the widespread adoption of computers & touch screens seem to conduct the survey, follow up any significant issues e.g. damaged chairs and tick the box DSE assessment complete.

Never been at any employment where there is an annual or any other period of DSE refresher.

thanks 4 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
WatsonD on 06/04/2023(UTC), peter gotch on 06/04/2023(UTC), WatsonD on 06/04/2023(UTC), peter gotch on 06/04/2023(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#9 Posted : 06 April 2023 12:21:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Since starting to use computers at work (just as the company typist was added to the endangered employments list) I have been at eight employers during which time I have filled three self assessment forms, the last of these was completed seven years ago at the last change of employer.

The only "training" during that whole period was a "setting up your work station" cine film right back at the start of the regulations (pre YouTube) and some abstracts of HSE literature when we all got sent to Work From Home during the public health event HM gov decided was a company H&S issue a couple of years ago.

Most of the employments following the widespread adoption of computers & touch screens seem to conduct the survey, follow up any significant issues e.g. damaged chairs and tick the box DSE assessment complete.

Never been at any employment where there is an annual or any other period of DSE refresher.

thanks 4 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
WatsonD on 06/04/2023(UTC), peter gotch on 06/04/2023(UTC), WatsonD on 06/04/2023(UTC), peter gotch on 06/04/2023(UTC)
WatsonD  
#10 Posted : 06 April 2023 13:19:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

I shouldstate that when I say training, in my mind I am thinking a short set up video, nothing more.

I should also state that (as mentioned in my OP) I don't qactually see any reason for annual refreshers myself - lest anyone thinks I am banging a drum for DSE training.

I have been on the forum long enough to know that DSE is an emotive subject. I guess it is probably fair to say that those that are happy to pay for the blanket annual refresher training, are probably not those same people who would visit these forums, but I guess they must exist by the sheer number of online course providers advising this.

thanks 1 user thanked WatsonD for this useful post.
peter gotch on 06/04/2023(UTC)
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