Rank: Forum user 
|
Hi
Our company Social Club are proposing to run a cycle ride as a social event at some time in the near future. People will be using their own bicycles, and cycle helmets and so on. At this moment there will be no childeren involved, but this may change.
Given that HASAWA 74 relates to work activities, and this is a social event, is there a real need to produce H&S documents at all? Volunti non fit injuria and all that?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
I think that the days when a company jolly can happen with no consideration of H&S are long gone. Even if the Health and Safety at Work Act does not apply ( it might if the social club is an employer, with just one employee) there is an expectation that someone will plan the event and take into account things like, the route travelled, weather conditions time of day etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
HSWA may not be relevent but unfortunately there are plenty of Lawyers and plenty of caselaw out there that would indicate that if arranged in any way by the company or using the company resources (email comms etc) then there is a 'Duty of Care' under Civil Law.
In a previous business, I organised a social cyling group made up largely of work collegues and using work email to organise. Just as part of the organisation process I created route sheets with meeting up points and specific route dangers (such as cattle grids, hairy junctions and dodgy road surfaces etc). I also sproduced a pseudo-blog which regularly included maintenance reminders. Before each ride phone numbers were swapped and an unnofical ride leader was appointed. None of this was anything branded as H&S, it was just organising the group. A friendly Barrister of my aquaintance reviewed what was being done and (onoffically) advised that there was enough to demonstrate an appropriate duty of care and TBH the company management weren't interested one way or another with regards liability and were happy with the risk for the benefit of employee wellbeing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
Hi, thanks for the reply, but personally I think that is HASAWA doesn't apply, then it doesn't apply! Thats why I wanted other peoples' opinions
If two families decide go out for a cycle ride, do they formally plan the route and document everything else before they go, and produce documentation for the ride? Next we will be asking the Company's insurers about what cover we need, and then we'd have to provide PPE, ensure people are competent to ride a bike, provide first aid cover, etc., forever To my mind, this is one of those "H&S gone mad" situations...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Originally Posted by: Oxford  Hi, thanks for the reply, but personally I think that is HASAWA doesn't apply, then it doesn't apply! Thats why I wanted other peoples' opinions
If two families decide go out for a cycle ride, do they formally plan the route and document everything else before they go, and produce documentation for the ride? Next we will be asking the Company's insurers about what cover we need, and then we'd have to provide PPE, ensure people are competent to ride a bike, provide first aid cover, etc., forever To my mind, this is one of those "H&S gone mad" situations...
You are right about HSWA in my opinion but because of the duty of care the insurers MAY be interested and the two don't go hand in hand. If somebody made a claim because a company organised route took them to the top of a 25% decent that ended in a blind corner just before a busy A road that they didn't know about before the ride and ended up in them being injured in an RTA on the A road then the insurers would absolutely be involved. No I wouldn't do the same planning with my family but I am also directly responsible for them so there is no concevable way a claim could be made in the same circumstances. I can hardly be awarded damages to be paid to myself by myself. Nothing happened with the cycling group until it came to a natural end but some people would surprise you with how they react to an injury/incident where under civil law (not HSWA) its not their fault. Volenti would apply if it ever got to a courtroom but the vast majority of claims don't and I've never known a single claim where Volenti was agreed by a Claimants solicitor. Its not a 'H&S gone mad' thing; its a Civil Law thing.
|
 1 user thanked Holliday42333 for this useful post.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Having sent my answer to this question someone sent me a link to the ChatGPT AI website. So I asked it what it thought. The answer is below:
“Even though the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974 primarily relates to work activities, it is important to note that employers have a general duty of care to ensure the health and safety of individuals under their control. This includes ensuring the safety of attendees at social events organized by the company. In the case of the proposed cycle ride, while it may not be a work activity, the company still has a duty of care to ensure the safety of participants, particularly if it is organized or facilitated by the company. The fact that individuals will be using their own bicycles does not absolve the company of this responsibility. Therefore, it would be prudent for the company to produce some basic health and safety documents for the cycle ride, such as a risk assessment and safety guidelines for participants. This will help to identify and mitigate potential hazards and reduce the risk of accidents or injuries occurring during the event. It is also worth noting that if the event involves children in the future, additional health and safety considerations will need to be taken into account, such as appropriate supervision and ensuring that appropriate safety equipment is provided for all participants. In summary, while the company may not be legally required to produce health and safety documents for a social event like a cycle ride, it is still advisable to do so in order to fulfil their duty of care and ensure the safety of participants.” A bit wordy but I think sound but can it answer RIDDOR questions?
|
2 users thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
The first line of my last post should read 'Common Law duty of care' but I can no longer edit posts since I'm am no longer an IOSH Member.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user 
|
Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel it is important to note that employers have a general duty of care to ensure the health and safety of individuals under their control. This includes ensuring the safety of attendees at social events organized by the company. Quote:
Annoying American spellings aside the response intimates a total control of the individual by the employer (@40 of 168 hours is NOT significant control) and speaks to company organisation of the event which was not the question posed at the start of the thread. As to the OP draw a line in the sand between the Social Club and the business - this is why we still have a lot of employer related Social Clubs trading whilst the business from whom the membership were originally drawn have long since closed down.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel it is important to note that employers have a general duty of care to ensure the health and safety of individuals under their control. This includes ensuring the safety of attendees at social events organized by the company. Quote:
Annoying American spellings aside the response intimates a total control of the individual by the employer (@40 of 168 hours is NOT significant control) and speaks to company organisation of the event which was not the question posed at the start of the thread. As to the OP draw a line in the sand between the Social Club and the business - this is why we still have a lot of employer related Social Clubs trading whilst the business from whom the membership were originally drawn have long since closed down.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.