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DHeptinstall  
#1 Posted : 09 June 2023 13:07:07(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
DHeptinstall

Just wondering if anyone has experience of unions in the workplace, as I have never worked anywhere that has been unionised.

We have a member of staff who is currently part-way through an insurance claim against us (which he will win, we were at fault). He has returned to work this week after a prolonged absence due to an 'injury' at work and is telling all and sundry that he will be "getting the union in".

He is the only member of staff that is a member of a union, and I am curious as to what this would/could actually entail - especially as he is the only member. 

I understand the usual H&S requirements about liaising with unions, appointing a safety representative etc., but would that apply in this case?

Thanks

Holliday42333  
#2 Posted : 09 June 2023 13:36:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Holliday42333

This almost certainly means that they will be making a claim via the union legal service (rather than an independent solicitor or claims handling compant type route).

Regardless of the circumstances, IME, this will lead to a payout regardless of fault.

Until they get to a courtroom, and they virtually never do in reality, claims are "settled" on purely financial considerations and Insurance companies dont want to spend lots of legal fees against the unions as the unions will push way beyond any other legal counsel and the fees will eclipse the value of a settled claim.

Therefore, even more than normal, insurance companies will settle with union represented claims as the costs will be less than defending the claim.

A Kurdziel  
#3 Posted : 09 June 2023 13:44:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

I have always worked in unionised workplaces and I know that they can very from total ineffectual why do they even bother organisations to terrifyingly powerful groups(although most were at the ineffectual end). Unions(or more accurately Union Appointed Safety reps) have certain rights under the 1977 regulations, which you are probably  aware of: the right to be consulted, the right to sit on the H&S committee, the right investigate accidents and the right to see H&S reports. They can stir things up   when someone is making a claim but once it has gone then there is very little that a union can do. At most they can take part in the lessons learned part of the follow to an investigation.  They can’t shut the place down or take the company to court independently. I just think your employee is just trying to make himself sound bigger than they are.  

thanks 1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
DHeptinstall on 09/06/2023(UTC)
DHeptinstall  
#4 Posted : 09 June 2023 13:44:37(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
DHeptinstall

Originally Posted by: Holliday42333 Go to Quoted Post

This almost certainly means that they will be making a claim via the union legal service (rather than an independent solicitor or claims handling compant type route).

Regardless of the circumstances, IME, this will lead to a payout regardless of fault.

Until they get to a courtroom, and they virtually never do in reality, claims are "settled" on purely financial considerations and Insurance companies dont want to spend lots of legal fees against the unions as the unions will push way beyond any other legal counsel and the fees will eclipse the value of a settled claim.

Therefore, even more than normal, insurance companies will settle with union represented claims as the costs will be less than defending the claim.


Thanks for the response. They've already made a claim via an independent solicitor which is looking extremely likely to succeed, as I said we're at fault in certain areas and there's no issue with that.

I'm interested to know what (if any) action his Union can take and what (if any) involvement there would be from then.

Thanks

achrn  
#5 Posted : 09 June 2023 14:39:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post

 Unions(or more accurately Union Appointed Safety reps) have certain rights under the 1977 regulations, which you are probably  aware of: the right to be consulted, the right to sit on the H&S committee, the right investigate accidents and the right to see H&S reports. They can stir things up   when someone is making a claim but once it has gone then there is very little that a union can do. At most they can take part in the lessons learned part of the follow to an investigation.  They can’t shut the place down or take the company to court independently. I just think your employee is just trying to make himself sound bigger than they are.  

I think all that applies only if the union is a recognised union in the particular workplace.  If this employee is the only member of the union in the workplace, it's very unlikely that it's a recognised union.  (Collective bargaining doesn't really make sense in the context of a collective of one person.) 

If it's not a recognised union, I think it's only as relevant as a friend he might have - the friend might have deep pockets and/or technical knowledge to be able to offer advice about how to sue the pants off you, but doesn't have any special powers. 

thanks 1 user thanked achrn for this useful post.
DHeptinstall on 12/06/2023(UTC)
Kate  
#6 Posted : 09 June 2023 15:04:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Yes I agree with achrn.

firesafety101  
#7 Posted : 09 June 2023 17:35:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Where do I start I ask myself.  The FBU is a strong union but they do not always getntheir way, e.g. I was injured at a RTC enroute to a RTC.(yes that's right) and I used the FBU's solicitors.  Although I won my claim my payout was poor because I started a new job 2 months after being retired.  No loss of earnings.

I friend of mine was OIC of a station and one of the fireman began a complaint against him which ended in an official tribunal.  He requested the assistance of the FBU, he was a member, but they refused because they were already representing the fireman.  The complaint was not upheld and the whole watch of firemen were posted out to the four corners of the brigade, my friend remained in his position.  Then when there was an official strike my friend could not go out on strike because he had no union protectionso he stayed manning the pump.  He was asked by the FBU to re-join the FBU and he refused.  He is now a SCAB and there are many who won't speak to him.  He is still my friend though.

When I worked for a bus company as H&S Co-ordinator I arranged risk assessment training with a plan for the workers to undertake risk assessments.  The management, supervisors etc. attended their training in a college, delivered by another friend of mine,there was also a catering school at the college and meals were provided to an excellent standard, table cloths and silver servivice. The trade union members decided they wanted their training by the TUC which I arranged for them.  There was no cost to the employer but no meals for the union members which they moaned about but I did remind them it was their choice.

I set up the H&S Committee meetings at the bus company, 5 bus garages/depots so five different meetings all involving union safety reps amd managers.  I took and issued minutes with named rosponsible people and received great feedback from everyone who agreed the safety committees have neve run as well.  I became a friend to the safety reps and assisted whenever I was asked to, treated averyone the same.

Trade Unions are not enemies of the employer but some employers seem to be angry when the Union Rep seeks a meeting about a H&S matter.  

According to the safety rep regs it only takes one union member to be recognised, as far as I can remember.

Do you have safety reps among the workforce?  If not perhaps you should think about it.

achrn  
#8 Posted : 12 June 2023 09:01:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

Originally Posted by: firesafety101 Go to Quoted Post

According to the safety rep regs it only takes one union member to be recognised, as far as I can remember.

As I understand it, the employer could choose to recognise a union that has only one member on the workforce.  However, since collective bargaining make very little sense with a collective of one, it's very unlikely that an employer would choose to do so.  With only one member on the workforce, the employer cannot be obliged to recognise the union (you need a minimum number of employees, 10% union membership and a majority of employees in favour of the union being recognised, I believe).
firesafety101  
#9 Posted : 12 June 2023 11:08:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Trade union membership is not all about wages negotions.,  The Safety Rep Regs. are about health and safety and safety reps do assist the employer in their H&S arrangements.  I have good experience of that.

Messey  
#10 Posted : 12 June 2023 14:00:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Messey

Originally Posted by: firesafety101 Go to Quoted Post

Trade union membership is not all about wages negotions.,  The Safety Rep Regs. are about health and safety and safety reps do assist the employer in their H&S arrangements.  I have good experience of that.


It is beyond doubt that without the FBU (despite their many problems) with their continued pressure and  involvement in H&S matters, firefighter injuries and deaths would be considerablly higher than the relatively low numbers they are at the moment

From the supply of equipment and strict safety procedures, to PPE standards and legisation - they have been fantastic in a world where the employers and their ever shrinking budgets would have always taken the easy/cheap option.

So yes, unions can be a thorn in the side when managing H&S, indeed it can be a tricky layer of HR problems to negotiate compared with non union places of work, but behind the banner waving lefties (as they are so often portrayed) they regularly do fantasic work to protect their members

thanks 3 users thanked Messey for this useful post.
Kate on 12/06/2023(UTC), peter gotch on 12/06/2023(UTC), firesafety101 on 13/06/2023(UTC)
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