Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
siannolan  
#1 Posted : 19 June 2023 14:09:56(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
siannolan

Hi All, 

I am facing a group of difficult engineers who are not understanding why I want to observe them completing a job in order to write the SSOW, I have a meeting with them and want to put across how important it is I ensure how they are completing the job is safe. 

Does anyone know of a case where an employee has been fined personally for breach WAH regulations. There are quite a few in the construction industry, however I'm looking for a manufacturing one or warehousing. 

PDarlow  
#2 Posted : 19 June 2023 14:27:48(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
PDarlow

Hi,

I'm unsure of any examples you ask for. Are you suggesting in-house fine??? or are you trying to make a distinction between criminal and civil cases?

What I will say is that I would try and engage with the engineers and get an understanding from them why they need to be involved and for them to write (or at least bullet point) a draft of what that SSoW should be in collaboration with yourself. They know the job in depth. It is about others taking ownership and accepting thier responsibility and accountability. If there is no real collaboration or a shared task i.e. creating paperwork, you may find that you end up being just the H&S admin.

You have every right to ask to observe and to learn any and all the processes, even of just to identify any possible gaps.

Good luck.

Colin Donnelly  
#3 Posted : 19 June 2023 14:44:45(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Colin Donnelly

In my opinion, I think that your first priority is to have an open dialogue and talk though the works methodology and potential hazards, before putting a SSOW together. This should be done in conjucntion with existing regulations and industry best practice.

I don't think carrying out the works before assessing the hazards and risks should ever be considered an option.

MrBrightside  
#4 Posted : 19 June 2023 15:00:24(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
MrBrightside

Hi,

You have been given some good advice already, just a word of caution of going down the evidence of prosecution route. This never works to change behaviour (workers and directors), as people will always belive it will never happen to them.

Simply ask them why they don't want you to observe them. Could simply be mistrust, maybe they think you will pick them up on things or try and change their way of working (or they know they are doing something they shouldn't!).

Sell it as an oppotuinty for them to set the standard going foward, the document will be used to train new people and we want to get it right. It chance to see if we can improve the way of working and ask what do what we do. Stick to the positives as much as you can.

peter gotch  
#5 Posted : 19 June 2023 15:52:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi Sian

I'm with Mr Brightside.

Stick to the positive reasons, rather than threat of prosecution or any other sanction.

You could look for prosecutions but you wouldn't find many.

So, you go to the HSE website (assuming in GB, though you could probably use GB information to inform other geographies) then search for Prosecutions.

Which will take you to a link to the HSE prosecutions database.

There are two of these. One covers prosecutions that have been completed with convictions (Not guilty outcomes are NOT included) more than 9 weeks before the time of your search (That 9 weeks allows for appeals to be instituted) and up to 1 year before your search.

The other deals with cases completed between 1 and 10 years ago. The "history" database.

Note that many cases against individuals would be removed from the history database due to convictions becoming "spent".

Without looking it up I can't even remember what number Regulation in WAH puts a duty on an employee, but let's suppose it is number N.

So then on each of the databases you want to select Advanced Search.

Then BREACHES instead of default CASES which means that you can search by specific legislative breaches.

So, then you can select Regulation - with WAH being one of the options.

Then Regulation Number - so you are asked to put in the number - in this case N.

Then search and find very little.

You can also do the same for breaches of Sections 7 and 8 of HSWA.

Probably a nil return for Section 8 and a very small number of Section 7 prosecutions, and it might be that whoever has done the data entry has typed in a Summary of the case which might say that the prosecution involved work at height. Many of the entries have the free text box for Summary left blank.

Kate  
#6 Posted : 19 June 2023 16:20:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Getting confrontational and threatening is unlikely to help in building the trust that you need.

Users browsing this topic
Guest (2)
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.