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carls3168  
#1 Posted : 12 July 2023 12:13:20(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
carls3168

We are currently having discussions with our business neighbours over a shared factory yard. 

The source of the problem is that the original legal position on the title was set when ‘the Factory’ was a single unit rather than, as it subsequently became, premises divided in 2 with separate owners. As such, the original deeds make no provision for stopping/turning in any part of the yard because if the factory building was in single ownership, there would be no need to. When the factory was subsequently divided, easements were granted to preserve the necessary access but no thought was given to the more nuanced question of stopping and turning. Presumably, that was never considered as a problem at the time that the easement was granted.

The main concern is with our neighbours articulated vehicles reversing, unaided, into our yard and turning whilst our employees are, or could be, working in this area. 

The HSE Guide to Workplace Transport Safety states where reversing cannot be avoided 'the business should provide clearly marked dedicated 'reversing areas' to allow vehicles to turn and drive forwards for most of the time'. Where this is not possible they should be excluding non-essential personnel from areas where vehicles are reversing, installing reversing aids or using trained banksman only when all other options have been exhausted. 

As the 'problem' vehicles are not ours I would interpret this as our neighbours needing to provide a safe reversing area, and/or safe solution in their yard for vehicles to exit forwards - which they could if they made space available. 

Obvioulsy as this is considered a shared workspace both parties are responsible for the safety of their own employees and those of other employees. It is our opinion they are not managing the risk so we will be writting to them. 

This issue has been going on for years, but land law and private law aren't going to help so we're now looking at H&S law. 

Any comments or advice on specific legislation would be welcomed. Many thanks 

RVThompson  
#2 Posted : 12 July 2023 13:19:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RVThompson

Regulation 11 of The Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 1999.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1999/3242/regulation/11/made

Is this what you're looking for Carl?

thanks 1 user thanked RVThompson for this useful post.
carls3168 on 12/07/2023(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 12 July 2023 13:57:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

"take all reasonable steps to inform the other employers concerned of the risks to their employees' health and safety arising out of or in connection with the conduct by him of his undertaking."

The main concern is with our neighbours articulated vehicles reversing, unaided, into our yard and turning whilst our employees are, or could be, working in this area.

Sorry thought your post stated it was a shared yard so already you have chosen a path of conflict rather than co-operation.

You also fail to mention your use of the yard - are your employees present merely to be an obstacle to your neighbours activity or are they actually conducting some work activity e.g. off-loading your delivery vehicles or merely using the yard as access / egress?

Are your deliveries / employees getting in your neighbours way?

If size permitted could you mark a dividing line down the middle?

Are ALL vehicle movements several times a day seven days a week or could you agree an access rota by hour / half day or day of the week?

Most importantly have you actually spoken to them rather than rushing for a regulation based fight?

Roundtuit  
#4 Posted : 12 July 2023 13:57:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

"take all reasonable steps to inform the other employers concerned of the risks to their employees' health and safety arising out of or in connection with the conduct by him of his undertaking."

The main concern is with our neighbours articulated vehicles reversing, unaided, into our yard and turning whilst our employees are, or could be, working in this area.

Sorry thought your post stated it was a shared yard so already you have chosen a path of conflict rather than co-operation.

You also fail to mention your use of the yard - are your employees present merely to be an obstacle to your neighbours activity or are they actually conducting some work activity e.g. off-loading your delivery vehicles or merely using the yard as access / egress?

Are your deliveries / employees getting in your neighbours way?

If size permitted could you mark a dividing line down the middle?

Are ALL vehicle movements several times a day seven days a week or could you agree an access rota by hour / half day or day of the week?

Most importantly have you actually spoken to them rather than rushing for a regulation based fight?

carls3168  
#5 Posted : 12 July 2023 14:14:31(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
carls3168

Thanks for your feedback Roundtuit. 

It is a shared yard, they have access rights to cross our yard along the bottom to enter theirs. Due to the poor layout of their yard (mainly due to poor housekeeping) their deliveries are then reversing out of their yard into our yard, encoraching into the area our staff are likely to be working, and completing blind turns, to go out the same way they came in. 

Our factory is a 24/7 operation and FLT's or employees can be in this area at anytime. 

We are not 'getting in the way' 

Thanks for the suggestion of adding a painted line which shouldn't be crossed.

Regarding a regulation based fight; this issue has been going on for years and writting to them to document our concerns is a last resort.  

peter gotch  
#6 Posted : 12 July 2023 16:26:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi Carl

Well the specific legislation is various requirements of the Management Regs as RVT has already mentioned, but you could add in the implicit requirements of Sections 2, 3 and possibly 4 of HSWA.

This is not dissimilar to any household neighbour issue, such as the resident four doors down from where I live who has repeatedly obstructed both roadway and footpath both during redevelopment and since.

So, you have two options:

1. Resolve via diplomacy or via private legal action

2. Call in the regulator to arbitrate.

Option 2 is risky - first the HSE or other regulator (assuming that they respond at all) should quite understandably ask why you haven't sorted this out between you; second they are likely to look closely at YOUR yard operations as well as those of the neighbour.

So, we are back to Option 1.

Possibly your neighbour doesn't recognise what you describe as "poor housekeeping". May be it's the junk that they probably ought to pay to get removed and dealt with as commercial waste, but they might think "This might come in handy, even if we don't know when".

The demarcation line only works up to a point as you have already advised that the neighbour has right of passage over part of your part of the yard, but may be you could draw up a partial line - to remind the neighbour of that part of YOUR part of the yard - which your lawyers could use in any action.

Ultimately the optimal solution is likely to result from you appealing to the neigbour's better nature! - what can they do to reduce the risk to those in your part of the yard? - and, perhaps is there anything YOU can do to make life easier for them?

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