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Drivers to our site have a portoloo to use but they use our staff toilets and make a horrible mess, can we lock our staff toilets so only the staff can have access?
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Rank: Super forum user 
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A portaloo is pretty poor provision given your site is obviously not transient like a festival or construction site. Are these just a loo or do they also provide washing facilities? Given the re-write to L24 locking your toilets to prevent driver access could be an issue https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/books/l24.htm
If your drivers are from the same haulage firms you could have a chat regarding respect for customer premises
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 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user
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A portaloo is pretty poor provision given your site is obviously not transient like a festival or construction site. Are these just a loo or do they also provide washing facilities? Given the re-write to L24 locking your toilets to prevent driver access could be an issue https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/books/l24.htm
If your drivers are from the same haulage firms you could have a chat regarding respect for customer premises
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2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
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Rank: Forum user 
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This is not that straightforward. Section 2 of HSWA places the duty for welfare provision on the employer (the haulage company). It does not place a duty on the site (under S3) for the site to provide welfare facilities for non-employees. Even in the Workplace Regs, it states the duty is on the employer, to either provide the welfare facilities or to ensure suitable welfare provision is available. Based on this, I would say 'legally' you can prevent non-employees from using your site's welfare facilities, especially as you have provided alternative arrangements.
I do, however, accept that as you have provided toilets specifically for non-employees, you should ensure that the required standards regarding the ability to wash etc. are met for these welfare arrangements. It is a case of you don't have to do it, but if you do it then there are no half-measures.
Hope it helps,
Tony.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Originally Posted by: antbruce001  Even in the Workplace Regs, it states the duty is on the employer, to either provide the welfare facilities or to ensure suitable welfare provision is available.
Which is why, primarily arising from the "lock the door" and "ban the outsider" approach most employers adopted during the recent pandemic the HSE took to addressing the guidance for drivers. https://www.hse.gov.uk/logistics/access-welfare-facilities.htm
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Rank: Super forum user
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Originally Posted by: antbruce001 Even in the Workplace Regs, it states the duty is on the employer, to either provide the welfare facilities or to ensure suitable welfare provision is available.
Which is why, primarily arising from the "lock the door" and "ban the outsider" approach most employers adopted during the recent pandemic the HSE took to addressing the guidance for drivers. https://www.hse.gov.uk/logistics/access-welfare-facilities.htm
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Rank: Super forum user
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Hi Roundtuit You wrote "Given the re-write to L24 locking your toilets to prevent driver access could be an issue https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/books/l24.htm"
However, the link points out that the "re-write" may take some time. As Tony has pointed out the duty under the Workplace Regs rests with the employer of a visiting driver, not on the site, so I think that it is unclear as to what, if any, LEGAL duty is on the site occupier to make welfare provision for visitors (whatever one's moral stance). Which probably means a need for amendement to the Regulations to extend their scope to reflect what for health and safety, but NOT welfare is in Section 3 of HSWA. .....and whether the current or next Government would have an appetite for an additional so called "burden on business" is doubtful.
Edited by user 21 July 2023 12:35:10(UTC)
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The portaloos have washing facilities and are checked and replenished every week. Our cleaners have complained how awful our staff toilets are and we know it is the drivers from various haulage companies
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Rank: Super forum user
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1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
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What is wrong with people to deny others of this basic facility?
As a former HGV driver, I was refused access to loos on the loading bay of a well known retail warehouse
I grumbled and walked to the front of the warehouse to use the public toilet. A member of the backdoor staff saw me, ran through the building to block my way
He told me it was for customer use only. We exchanged words before I returned to the loading bY and urinated up a wheel on my truck, partly out of need and partly in protest.
Your firm should be bloody disgusted with themselves. Forget the law or regulations- open up the loo for God's sake!!!!
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5 users thanked Messy for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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The only issue I have with toilets everywhere is the numbers of people who use the Accessible Toilets that are designed to be used by wheelchair users and others with various disabilities. Out and about while waiting outside such toilets I find whole families are in there, perhaps 6 of them while my daughter is is need of using the loo. I'm sure others, like lorry drivers will also use them. The college my daughter attends has lifts and toilets for disabled students but they are also used by anyone and everyone.
Some places have access by Radar Key and most disabled people have their own, this does provide a degree of control but anyone can purchase the Key. I have seen a wheelchair user HGV driver who has a special seat that raises him into and out of the cab, hand controls for driving his truck, which toilet would you allow him to use, obviously the Portaloo will not be suitable for wheelchair users.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Local authorities make all public conveniences available for a payment which means it gets problematic having sufficient change for larger families, particularly now cash is heading the way of the dinosaurs.
The various councils could of course set aside the large cubicle for the less able bodied but as you recognise the RADAR key is widely available for on-line for purchase. On a recent trip we noticed one council had removed the RADAR key, and the coin slot, from a row of conveniences and replaced them with card readers - great if you have a card and credit at the bank and the reader is working.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Local authorities make all public conveniences available for a payment which means it gets problematic having sufficient change for larger families, particularly now cash is heading the way of the dinosaurs.
The various councils could of course set aside the large cubicle for the less able bodied but as you recognise the RADAR key is widely available for on-line for purchase. On a recent trip we noticed one council had removed the RADAR key, and the coin slot, from a row of conveniences and replaced them with card readers - great if you have a card and credit at the bank and the reader is working.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Originally Posted by: firesafety101 The only issue I have with toilets everywhere is the numbers of people who use the Accessible Toilets that are designed to be used by wheelchair users and others with various disabilities.
Not all disabilities are visible Fire Safety
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Originally Posted by: Brian Hagyard Originally Posted by: firesafety101 The only issue I have with toilets everywhere is the numbers of people who use the Accessible Toilets that are designed to be used by wheelchair users and others with various disabilities.
Not all disabilities are visible Fire Safety
I've known that for a very long time Brian, using a wheelchair is always visible. Accessible toilets are designed with wheelchairs in mind.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Originally Posted by: firesafety101 Originally Posted by: Brian Hagyard Originally Posted by: firesafety101 The only issue I have with toilets everywhere is the numbers of people who use the Accessible Toilets that are designed to be used by wheelchair users and others with various disabilities.
Not all disabilities are visible Fire Safety
I've known that for a very long time Brian, using a wheelchair is always visible. Accessible toilets are designed with wheelchairs in mind.
There are lots of other disabilities that require the space offered in accessible toilets that you would not know are needed just by looking at someone - shocking generalisation to say the are designed with a wheelchair in mind in this day and age!
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