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Peter Rickman  
#1 Posted : 14 November 2023 12:50:48(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Peter Rickman

My wife whilst at work was using a knife to cut a hard substance, (rose wax) in the cosmetic industry, this was a tool supplied by the employer.  The knife slipped causing a small cut that severed the tendon of the middle finger of her right hand.  After a visit to A&E the same day she underwent surgery two days later.  She is now unable to work due to the accident in the workplace.  The employer is a well-known international company and has said that because she had signed a consent form that she knows how to use a knife they will not pay her sick pay for the time off work which will be between 6 - 12 weeks.  The HSE department has not contacted her at any stage to discuss how this happened and how this accident could have been avoided.

My question is should she be liable for sick pay as it was a work-related accident?

peter gotch  
#2 Posted : 14 November 2023 12:56:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi Peter

How much the employer should be paying is largely down to the contract of employment.

If that doesn't set the parameters then you need to consider whether Statutory Sick Pay is relevant.

Statutory sick pay - Sick pay - Acas

thanks 1 user thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
Peter Rickman on 20/11/2023(UTC)
Kate  
#3 Posted : 14 November 2023 13:21:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

The cause of injury being work-related has no legal bearing on whether the employer has to pay sick pay - although you might well think it has a moral bearing on it. 

Sometimes there is a discretionary element to sick pay.  It can be that according to the strict letter of the employer's policy, they are not entitled to company sick pay, but that there is management discretion to pay it anyway.  Of course that can't be relied on, but it might be worth a try.

I agree that the ACAS website is the place to get the authoritative information about sick pay entitlements, particularly statutory sick pay which the employer cannot get out of if the conditions apply.  However statutory sick pay is derisory in value.

thanks 3 users thanked Kate for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 14/11/2023(UTC), MikeKelly on 16/11/2023(UTC), Peter Rickman on 20/11/2023(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#4 Posted : 14 November 2023 14:43:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

There are two things that can never be subject of waiver or disclaimer under UK law - death and injury.

Whilst signing a document stating someone knows how to use a knife may give them a waiver in foreign lands the onus is on UK employers to prove they have provided suitable and sufficient training which even then does not absolve them of certain obligations in the event of injury or death.

This is where work related claims come in - to recover loss of earnings especially where an employer has no or limited sick-pay. Generally good sick pay schemes are put in place to off-set litigation and compensation.

If she is in a union they need to be staring the ball rolling through their solicitors (although based on the knife document comment I suspect there is no one looking after employee rights in this workplace).

thanks 8 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 14/11/2023(UTC), Kate on 14/11/2023(UTC), MikeKelly on 16/11/2023(UTC), Peter Rickman on 20/11/2023(UTC), A Kurdziel on 14/11/2023(UTC), Kate on 14/11/2023(UTC), MikeKelly on 16/11/2023(UTC), Peter Rickman on 20/11/2023(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#5 Posted : 14 November 2023 14:43:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

There are two things that can never be subject of waiver or disclaimer under UK law - death and injury.

Whilst signing a document stating someone knows how to use a knife may give them a waiver in foreign lands the onus is on UK employers to prove they have provided suitable and sufficient training which even then does not absolve them of certain obligations in the event of injury or death.

This is where work related claims come in - to recover loss of earnings especially where an employer has no or limited sick-pay. Generally good sick pay schemes are put in place to off-set litigation and compensation.

If she is in a union they need to be staring the ball rolling through their solicitors (although based on the knife document comment I suspect there is no one looking after employee rights in this workplace).

thanks 8 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 14/11/2023(UTC), Kate on 14/11/2023(UTC), MikeKelly on 16/11/2023(UTC), Peter Rickman on 20/11/2023(UTC), A Kurdziel on 14/11/2023(UTC), Kate on 14/11/2023(UTC), MikeKelly on 16/11/2023(UTC), Peter Rickman on 20/11/2023(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#6 Posted : 14 November 2023 16:51:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Kate is correct: sick pay is what you are entitled  to  get if you are unable to work do to any sort of illness or injury. How that injury arose is not relevant. Has she been sacked? In that case she may have a case for wrongful dismissal as you can only sack people if you have gone through a process to establish that they are no longer able to work.

If she has been injured at work, she can bring a claim against her employer which would include loss of earnings and  pain and suffering. The employer could defend the case by arguing that they had done everything reasonably practical to prevent such an event. As Roundtuit said. A “consent form”  does not cut it under UK  law.

thanks 3 users thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
Kate on 14/11/2023(UTC), MikeKelly on 16/11/2023(UTC), Peter Rickman on 20/11/2023(UTC)
Kate  
#7 Posted : 14 November 2023 16:58:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

I agree with the points made above about making a claim against the employer.  This is why everyone should join a trade union!

thanks 2 users thanked Kate for this useful post.
MikeKelly on 16/11/2023(UTC), Peter Rickman on 20/11/2023(UTC)
firesafety101  
#8 Posted : 15 November 2023 11:33:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

What does the risk assessment say about PPE, method of holding the wax which could be greasy and slip out of the hand, and other requirements of the task.

You don't need to be in a trade union to start a claim there are lots of solicitors out there who will start a claim for you at no cost to you.

ACAS is a good place to start but a solicitor is better.

Good luck.

thanks 4 users thanked firesafety101 for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 15/11/2023(UTC), Kate on 15/11/2023(UTC), MikeKelly on 16/11/2023(UTC), Peter Rickman on 20/11/2023(UTC)
thunderchild  
#9 Posted : 15 November 2023 14:20:46(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
thunderchild

My first thought was to PPE or possibly lack thereof.

Does not sound the most caring of employers so I would be ensuring that she is paid her stautory sick pay (which they cannot get out of paying) even though its not that great and seeing a solicitor.

Has she even seen a risk assessment for the task she was carrying out? Sat at my desk I can think of a miriad of hazrads and possible control measures....but that is all in my imaginary workspace.

thanks 1 user thanked thunderchild for this useful post.
Peter Rickman on 20/11/2023(UTC)
Peter Rickman  
#10 Posted : 20 November 2023 14:42:21(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Peter Rickman

Thank you for your posts and advice.  We will be claiming against the employer for sick pay and asking for the procedure for cutting the wax to be reviewed before another incident occurs.

Kate  
#11 Posted : 20 November 2023 15:05:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Good luck, I hope it works out well.  There is more than just sick pay you can claim for, but a solicitor will help you with that.

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