Rank: Super forum user 
|
The latest tender / prequal / whatever document we've had in has requested our accident stats for the last n years broken down by sex, so not only how many accidents, serious accidents, RIDDORs etc, but all split by whether the injured party is male and female. None of my aggregated records record that, so to get it I'd need to dig out the original notifications and then look up the sex of the person concerned (I can't always tell from names), which I need to ask HR for because I don't have access to that part of the staff records.
I'm inclined to suggest where they can stick this request (but politely - I'll blame data protection or something), but before I do that, is this something that you are routinely doing (recording the sex of teh injured party in your aggregated records)?
They also want our training records split likewise - number of male workers to have received fire safety training, number of female workers to have received fire safety training, etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user 
|
Hi achrn In over 25 years of dealing with prequal and tender questions I can't remember EVER being asked to split incident data by sex. Ditto training records or anything else. Plenty of other daft QQ, but not this one! The Equalities Act was made in 1970 and so it shouldn't be necessary to try and break down such data, unless perhaps somebody is taking their EDI programme far to far! In the real world, suppose your company is a Contractor, there will STILL be a bias in where people of opposite sexes are deployed. So, even if the request was for incident RATES getting the information would provide little, if any, "intelligence" to the Client (or someone working for the Client). The more severe accidents will be skewed towards males - that is shown year after year in HSE national statistics - for the simple reason that it is predomantly males who do the most hazardous jobs - in MOST sectors. There IS merit in looking a certain types of work and assessing whether there is inadequate protection for one or other sex, based on physiological and other considerations. So, as example it was recognised about 50 years ago that BS standards for machinery safeguarding failed to adequately protect the increasing number of people in the workforce with long, slender fingers that could get through smallish openings in machine guards - those people were predominantly women of minority ethnic backgrounds. But, at the organisation wide level, splitting generally small (statistically speaking) numbers of accidents into one sex or the other is not going to provide any useful information whatsoever. So, I would be tempted to do as you say. Remember that others out there are being asked the same QQ and faced with the same dilemma. If a large number of the potential supply chain politely tell the Client to stuff it, the Client will soon change their ways or face a squeeze on the availability of supply chain partners.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user 
|
In all of the ways that I have ever been asked to classify incidents, sex has never featured. I wonder what they hope to get from this information? Do they want to use it to establish whether the sexes are equally protected (which for the reasons Peter outlines will not work), or just to find out whether you are recording this information at all as part of incident data?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
hair colour and shoe size?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user 
|
Organisations proving they have too many employees trying to look busy by doing non-productive activity.
|
 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Organisations proving they have too many employees trying to look busy by doing non-productive activity.
|
2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Aaaarghj. Thanks all, I just wroite a finely crafted reply but teh forum lost it on posting, it seems, and I can't be retyping it all again. It was really good, informative and appreciative though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user 
|
Is Trans Gender on their list ? If not why not? Seems to me the company has some discriminatory tendancies. Workforces are now open to everyone without question, unless you can think of some that are not which means all employees are equal. As has already been said some machine guarding is unsuitable for female fingers but that guarding needs to be altered under Reasonable Adjustments.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Reasonable Adjustment applies to disabled people - being female is not a disability!
Many kinds of equipment have historically been designed to suit men only and do not have the correct fit for women. That does need to change in general and not just as an adjustment because you have an individual female operator.
|
1 user thanked Kate for this useful post.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Originally Posted by: firesafety101  Is Trans Gender on their list ? If not why not?
Where someone is selecting their gender this will be an absolute administrative nightmare.
Were they trans at commencement of employment?
Did they transition during employment?
Do you record the accident & training against their "sex" at time of occurence?
Do you record the accident & training against their preferred gender at time of occurence?
Do you retrospectivley update the accident & training stats to reflect their current gender?
Do you change all the numbers again if they choose to de-transition?
Do you offend the individual by only using that which is stated on official documents?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Originally Posted by: firesafety101 Is Trans Gender on their list ? If not why not?
Where someone is selecting their gender this will be an absolute administrative nightmare.
Were they trans at commencement of employment?
Did they transition during employment?
Do you record the accident & training against their "sex" at time of occurence?
Do you record the accident & training against their preferred gender at time of occurence?
Do you retrospectivley update the accident & training stats to reflect their current gender?
Do you change all the numbers again if they choose to de-transition?
Do you offend the individual by only using that which is stated on official documents?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Come on achrn, type it again!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Originally Posted by: Kate Reasonable Adjustment applies to disabled people - being female is not a disability!
Many kinds of equipment have historically been designed to suit men only and do not have the correct fit for women. That does need to change in general and not just as an adjustment because you have an individual female operator.
Apologies if I offened you Kate, I'll re-phrase what I said. Adjustments need to be made that are reasonable.
|
1 user thanked firesafety101 for this useful post.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Originally Posted by: firesafety101 Is Trans Gender on their list ? If not why not?
Where someone is selecting their gender this will be an absolute administrative nightmare.
Were they trans at commencement of employment?
Did they transition during employment?
Do you record the accident & training against their "sex" at time of occurence?
Do you record the accident & training against their preferred gender at time of occurence?
Do you retrospectivley update the accident & training stats to reflect their current gender?
Do you change all the numbers again if they choose to de-transition?
Do you offend the individual by only using that which is stated on official documents?
Why are you making Trans Gender a big issue when it is accepted by lots of human beings and should not be made a problem in the workplace. The way you set out your post looks as if you are against people changing their gender which, as you are aware is against the Equality Act.
Our government is not allowing acceptance as far as the national health service is concerned, trans gender people have to go private for their prescriptions relating to the change, and they can be very very expensive. If we as Health and Safety minded people can't get it right there is no hope that others will.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Originally Posted by: firesafety101 Why are you making Trans Gender a big issue when it is accepted by lots of human beings and should not be made a problem in the workplace. The way you set out your post looks as if you are against people changing their gender which, as you are aware is against the Equality Act.
If we as Health and Safety minded people can't get it right there is no hope that others will.
Please refrain from presuming you know what I am thinking.
I find the extrapolations of your post insulting and unprofessional.
|
2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Originally Posted by: firesafety101 Why are you making Trans Gender a big issue when it is accepted by lots of human beings and should not be made a problem in the workplace. The way you set out your post looks as if you are against people changing their gender which, as you are aware is against the Equality Act.
If we as Health and Safety minded people can't get it right there is no hope that others will.
Please refrain from presuming you know what I am thinking.
I find the extrapolations of your post insulting and unprofessional.
|
2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
I didn't read that as an attack on respect for trans gender people, any more than I read the original post as an attack on employing women alongside men. It seemed to me to be a development of the topic from the undesirablility of reporting injuries by sex to the undesirability of reporting them by gender. And of course, if you are going to report things by sex, you need to consider whether you really mean sex or really mean gender as in some cases they are not the same.
|
2 users thanked Kate for this useful post.
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.