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Sarah Yates  
#1 Posted : 28 November 2023 12:20:59(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Sarah Yates

We have recently had a false fire alarm. Upon hearing the alram everyone in the building immdeietely got up and left. 

If this was a planned alarm this is what I would expect everyone to do. Would fire marshalls be expected to stay in the building and make sure everyone vacated or would they also leave with everyone else? and who would check to see if there was an actual fire without putting themselevs in danger, how would we know the building was safe to re enter? our alarm is not linked to the fire brigade. Turns out it was just dust in the sensor but if it was an actual fire we need to get a few things right 

Kate  
#2 Posted : 28 November 2023 12:28:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

A false alarm is an excellent opportunity to test your emergency plan.  You learn much more than you do in a planned alarm, because it is more realistic. But you do need to have a plan first. You should already have a plan, and it needs to go beyond evacuating the building to what happens next.  If you don't have such a plan, you need to get one in place now. As to what the plan should contain, that will depend on your circumstances.

thanks 2 users thanked Kate for this useful post.
peter gotch on 28/11/2023(UTC), HSSnail on 29/11/2023(UTC)
Vita Grod  
#3 Posted : 28 November 2023 13:02:53(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Vita Grod

Fire evacuation drills are fantastic for testing out your current emergency procedures as well as everyone's general awareness of the roles and responsibilities during a fire. 

I'm unsure if there is a standard process - fire isn't my strongest topic - however, if the fire evacuation is a practice - you should be fully aware and confident that there is no fire and alarms will be placed to test with the company. If the fire evacuation was unplanned, then you are not certain there isn't a fire, and must call the fire brigade whilst fire marshals / wardens conduct a safety sweep and report anything to the fire brigade. 

Judging by your questions - It is all information that should be covered within the Fire Procedure / Emergency reponse plan / whatever emergency documentation. Good opportunity for a document review and potential rewrite of procedure with relevant personnel! :)

Kate  
#4 Posted : 28 November 2023 13:07:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

I don't agree that you must call the fire brigade before investigating the cause of the alarm - fire brigades do not take kindly to being called out to false alarms.  Investigate first, and if you find reason to think there is indeed a fire, then call the fire brigade and tell them so.

thanks 2 users thanked Kate for this useful post.
peter gotch on 28/11/2023(UTC), HSSnail on 29/11/2023(UTC)
Tstamps  
#5 Posted : 28 November 2023 14:10:25(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Tstamps

For us, the marhsals job is to help people leave in the event of a fire, if required , then to sweep the building to ensure that nobody is left (roll call is an aletrnative to that). Then once you have confirmed that the building is empty (the brigade will ask if that is the case)  to confirm if there was a fire by seraching for signs of a fire.

The fire brigade probably are not going to attend if someone cannot visually confirm a fire or sign of one. And, as stated i think there are fines for successfully getting them to attend when  there is no fire.

thanks 1 user thanked Tstamps for this useful post.
HSSnail on 29/11/2023(UTC)
thunderchild  
#6 Posted : 28 November 2023 14:40:50(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
thunderchild

We had this recently as well as having 2 real evacs due to small fires on site and it was treated exactly the same as a real event.

Everyone evacuated and the persons with responsibilities followed those even though on the way out we were sure it was a false alarm.

We have a fully written proceedure to follow, false, real or test.

As others have said, its a good way to test that what you say you do is what you actually do. We are connected to the fire brigade and as soon as it was identified as a false alarm we stood them down.

A Kurdziel  
#7 Posted : 28 November 2023 16:44:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

The old school approach was to take a roll call, but that won’t work in most modern work environments: few people spend the whole day working at one location. They will move about attending meetings etc. So someone has to do a sweep as after the alarm has gone off, to make sure everybody it out, particularly if you have people with impaired mobility or sensory impairments which means that they might miss the alarm.

What you should be checking for is:

  • Does everybody get out quickly and nobody hangs back cos they want to finish that really important  Teams call?
  • Where there any areas where the alarms did not work or were difficult to hear
  • Was the signage useful or was it ambiguous, sending people to the wrong place?
  • Were there any chokepoints such as at the bottom of the stairs?
  • Did people stay out until the all clear was given?

There is no point calling the fire brigade if it’s a false alarm. They should only be called if it is confirmed to be a real fire(except maybe in a hospital or accommodation for vulnerable people).

thanks 3 users thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
Kate on 28/11/2023(UTC), peter gotch on 28/11/2023(UTC), HSSnail on 29/11/2023(UTC)
HSSnail  
#8 Posted : 29 November 2023 08:26:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Originally Posted by: Vita Grod Go to Quoted Post

then you are not certain there isn't a fire, and must call the fire brigade whilst fire marshals / wardens conduct a safety sweep and report anything to the fire brigade. 

Good luck with getting a response unless you know there is a fire - i would suggest you speak with your local fire service for advice. We own a number of buildings and the only ones the fire service will automaticaly attend for a fire alarm are those "of significant historic interest"pifx


thanks 1 user thanked HSSnail for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 29/11/2023(UTC)
Messey  
#9 Posted : 29 November 2023 13:36:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Messey

Most - but not all - Fire & Rescue Services have now adopted a policy restricting attending fire alarm calls - and frankly, quite rightly. 

Let me explain why.........

The Responsible Person MUST make their own plans to evacuate everyone and not reply on fire service intervention for, say, those with mobility difficulties. IMO this 'emergency plan' part of a RP's duties is far more onerous than searching for a fire in the event that the alarm activates.

Most fire alarm systems are designed to warn those in the building of a fire and to inform them to take approriate action.  There is no practical reason for fire service intervention to complete this process. Again, most fire and rescue services will attend where there are vulnerable persons, but even then, often with a reduce capability of as little as 4 firefighters unless they receive information of a confirmed fire

I should add that a confirmed fire also means a report of a fire, a smell of burning, hot walls or doors, a wisp of smoke or anything out of the ordinary that leads you to suspect there's a fire

Its clear that hard pressed F&RS' are doing this to save cash, but there is a risk attached to sending crews dashing about on blue lights - often to alarm calls that were known to be false when the 999 call was made 

In my 32 years in the fire service, many people waited longer for help (or rescue) as the local crews were out on a false fire alarm call. This included a fire I attended on a neighbouring station's ground 5 miles away as they were out on such a call. The station was 300m away, we used ladders to rescue 5 persons.

 I also lost a friend when his fire appliace was involved in a RTC en route to a fire alarm call

 I worked intensively with one address where the RP  had us out 280 times in a 12 month period. That's 5+ times a week! Each call would empty two fire stations for around 30 mins - so nearly 3 hours a week, the local community were without fire cover.... and that was just one address on our area!!!!!

So for those who think this is a poor idea just aimed at saving money, I hope my brief summary of the rationale will help change your minds

thanks 3 users thanked Messey for this useful post.
peter gotch on 29/11/2023(UTC), Kate on 29/11/2023(UTC), HSSnail on 29/11/2023(UTC)
HSSnail  
#10 Posted : 29 November 2023 14:10:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Good summary Messey - i two agree with the reasons why they are doing it. Got a letter not long ago from our local fire service, saying they had been called out 5 times that month to one of our buildings for false alarms - dont remember the exact wording but basicaly get our act together or expect a bill! Fortunatly we had sold the building 5 years ago and the new owner had not told the fire service - so i was able to pass on his details! I have the same argument with people about lift rescue or rescue from heights - why on earth should we expect the fire service to attend these we should make our own plans!

thanks 1 user thanked HSSnail for this useful post.
peter gotch on 29/11/2023(UTC)
firesafety101  
#11 Posted : 29 November 2023 14:25:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Adding to Messey's points the FRS are now looking to delay firefighters wearing BA and donning their sets in a potentially smokey environment inside high rise blocks of flats, this I'm sire is to save money on re-charging BA cylinders.

Also with only 4 firefighters on the first attending appliance entering a building for firefighting is delayed because man/womanpower is not sufficient to safely follow procedures therefore it bacomes even more important to sweep the premises and report to the assembly point as soon as possible.

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