I must be very lucky as the HR dept I have dealt with for the last 14 years have been pretty good in the professional fire safety/PEEP/adjustments arena. In fact my only complaint was giving me too much to do which was definately in their remit

However on a more personal level -  promotion, appraisals, expesnes, leave etc - they have been like every HR dept I have come across.  A nightmare!!! Applying rules literally with no flexibility, common sense or proportionality. The opposite of how I work, which is why I find them so frustrating . 

My opinion of HR people has gotten lower and lower over the years .

They tend to be very process driven, with the process being an end it itself, rather than a means to an end.  They prefer documentation to outcomes, with their major concern being protecting the organisation not the people, so an investigation that suggests that an incident is own to “human error”  rather than systemic management failure is the referred root cause especially if the blame can be laid at an individual.  Risk assessment is simply a paper exercise not an attempt come up with operational solutions.

… ..and they never get their hands dirty. By that I mean they are not really interested in what the organisation actually does and what the majority of employees get up every day.  

The modern breed of Human Resources are a world away from what was Personnel.

Even the name gives an indication there are employer resources which are squishy, get sick, have needs and wants requiring vast acres of deforestation for the policies, forms and records so that an employer can demonstrate they comply with employment legislation when hauled to tribunal or before a regulator.

What I personally see as frightening is that whereas Personnel was a group of employed colleagues HR seems to be heading down the route of total out-sourcing (pensions, payroll, training, occupational health, travel etc.) adding to delays in decision making and resolving queries.

Originally Posted by: Kate

Well I find that like any profession they are variable.  Some of them appear to be agents of an ancient evil, some are caring and empathetic people who want the best for the business they work for, some are twisted and self-serving, some are just trying to be professional, and some are barely coping with a job they don't even like.

I find H&S people can be like that and if I'm honest I can be all depending on whom I'm having the pleasure or displeasure dealing with. Although I do start off as emplethetic but it can go down hill, I'm no angel and somedays, yes I do hate my job.

I've been firmly put in my place this week whilst trying to have that informal chat with HR at my new role exploring the seam between Health and Safety and HR regarding wellness and mental health. Maybe it was my clumsy, blunt, assuming approach; but they were very defensive and I was told; that staff wellness is not in my remit and I shouldn't even discuss HR issues! 

It's not been my experience in every role, some companies have great HR people/departments/systems, but this compartmentalised/departmental management with no communication between areas seems negative/toxic. 

Stepping back from the issue for now, just another barrier to overcome, will look at trying to 'support' HR in their wellness improvements more subtly in future.

O'Donnell, I'm curious, how exactly did Self and Hasty tell HR how to do their job? It seemed more like a collaborative approach on an important issue that crosses both HR and Health & Safety boundaries, rather than overstepping?

My question is, “What is HR’s role anyway?”. From my experience these are the people who seem to spend a lot of time jollying people up in the name of wellbeing. If there is an office party to be organised or a fun packed awayday to be arrange it’s usually our friends in HR doing it. These are then same people who went you want a vacant H&S position filled spend 6 months vacillating before they even start the recruitment process.  Who do you think is the main source of work-related stress in my workplace?

It's evident that Self & Hasty initiated this conversation with HR before being informed (during it) of the expectation of keeping out of it.  If you don't have the conversation, how can you know?

Originally Posted by: Kate

It's evident that Self & Hasty initiated this conversation with HR before being informed (during it) of the expectation of keeping out of it.  If you don't have the conversation, how can you know?

So now you are saying that he did not know what his remit included/excluded when he took the job? I, personnally find that hard to believe, but OK so be it.  

Certainly some food for thought another discussion tomorrow regarding employee wanting to work with fractured foot in medical boot note he his an engineer and has to work upstairs my initial thoughts are he should stay off work until able to walk and evacuate building effectively without endangering others 

again thank you for the replies 

Originally Posted by: Self and Hasty

I've been firmly put in my place this week whilst trying to have that informal chat with HR at my new role exploring the seam between Health and Safety and HR regarding wellness and mental health. Maybe it was my clumsy, blunt, assuming approach; but they were very defensive and I was told; that staff wellness is not in my remit and I shouldn't even discuss HR issues! 

It's not been my experience in every role, some companies have great HR people/departments/systems, but this compartmentalised/departmental management with no communication between areas seems negative/toxic. 

Stepping back from the issue for now, just another barrier to overcome, will look at trying to 'support' HR in their wellness improvements more subtly in future.

Oh my goodness - this is word for word the exact problem I am having! I was told wellbeing is nothing to do with me and they even complained to my manager in an email about me stepping outside of my remit! I've tried Kate's approach of sitting down informally with them but it hasn't worked. I'm leaving it alone for now!

This is the first organisation I've worked in where I haven't had a good working relationship with HR so it's come as a bit of a surprise - maybe I was just lucky previously

Well according to IOSH, one of the many competencies we are supposed to have is this: "An OSH professional is expected to deliver management systems that promotes and protects worker wellbeing. This includes persuading them to make good lifestyle choices to keep themselves fit and healthy and systems for the effective management of mental health."

When I was retired from the fire service I got a job in a factory as Fire Prevention Officer based in the personell department.  A short time after I started the Personal Department became HR with some personel changes.  After one year I was given responsibility for Security with a decent pay rise as the Security Chief was taking voluntary redundancy.  How voluntary it was I have my doubts but he got a good package.

I noted the HR people's changing attitude toward the others in HR, includig me, they went very secretive about their responsibilities but were still sociable with me.

Another year went by and I was given what was a promotion when the Safety Engineer took volantary redundancy so I became "Administrator of Fire, Security and Health and Safety" with another pay rise. I had gained 9 security officers and managed to get an assistant to my fire responsibilities.

I noted the pressures on the HR people increasing and obviously worrying about their positions.

After 4 years I was 'offered' voluntarry redundancy with a very good package, thought about is overnight, went back in the next day and asked for more money and that was accepted.  Kicking myself for not asking for more.

They replaced me with one of the hourly paid handymen, my assistant took the money and security looked after themselves.

In conclusion I say HR people may be protecting themselves by not being too willing to share their roles.