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Kate  
#1 Posted : 12 May 2024 15:11:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Here's a thing that has puzzled me, and I wondered if anyone had an insight into it.

An organisation in England whose work activity means it falls under the HSE for enforcement.  Following an injury to a member of the public on its premises, a RIDDOR report was made online.  The options selected in the online form confirmed that this would be under HSE remit (should they have any wish to follow it up).

As usual these days for the less serious events, nothing back from the HSE.  However, a few weeks later, a letter from the local council acknowledging the RIDDOR report, stating they did not propose to investigate it (no one had imagined they would) and making some suggestions, relevant to the nature of the event, about what the organisation itself might wish to do as follow-up themselves.

Why and how would the local council have become involved?

Roundtuit  
#2 Posted : 12 May 2024 19:15:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Government Departments + Computer Systems = what could possibly go wrong?

I will refer my learned friend to the recent failure of "e-gates" at passport control where apparently HM gov failed to inform BT they were conducting a software update which resulted in travelller chaos.

Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 12 May 2024 19:15:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Government Departments + Computer Systems = what could possibly go wrong?

I will refer my learned friend to the recent failure of "e-gates" at passport control where apparently HM gov failed to inform BT they were conducting a software update which resulted in travelller chaos.

Xavier123  
#4 Posted : 12 May 2024 19:23:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Xavier123

If it was directed to the HSE initially via the RIDDOR submission then this means that the HSE have made a decision to refer it to the relevant LA via the RIDDOR database. That doesn't mean they always get it right - although on this occasion it appears that at least HSE and the LA have been in agreement about enforcement?

However, I would flag that enforcement authority is not determined by the nature of the organisation main work activity but rather the main activity at the premises in question (although there are several caveats to even this definition!)

As an example, a head office building for e.g. a construction company would be one for LA enforcement despite the nature of the business being one that would usually fall to the HSE in regards their normal day to day work activity.  

thanks 3 users thanked Xavier123 for this useful post.
HSSnail on 13/05/2024(UTC), Yossarian on 13/05/2024(UTC), Kate on 13/05/2024(UTC)
HSSnail  
#5 Posted : 13 May 2024 07:24:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

As Xavier says the HSE and LA can transfer RIDDORS, as an ex inspector played ping pong with a few where HSE would try and find reason to make them LA - no idea why as never worthy of investigation. Also the HSE sometimes has a strange idea of "main use" so for any "Branded" garage they see the main use as retail sales not repair (even though some of them are lucky to sell 1 car a day).

Also reg 5 of enforcing authority regs give the HSE and LA the ability to "transphere enforcement responsibility" between themselves. Designed to try and prevent conflict of interest, but in my 30 years as an inspector it was pretty much a 1 way street from HSE to LA.

thanks 2 users thanked HSSnail for this useful post.
Yossarian on 13/05/2024(UTC), Kate on 13/05/2024(UTC)
Yossarian  
#6 Posted : 13 May 2024 09:55:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Yossarian

Originally Posted by: HSSnail Go to Quoted Post

As Xavier says the HSE and LA can transfer RIDDORS, as an ex inspector played ping pong with a few where HSE would try and find reason to make them LA - no idea why as never worthy of investigation. Also the HSE sometimes has a strange idea of "main use" so for any "Branded" garage they see the main use as retail sales not repair (even though some of them are lucky to sell 1 car a day).

Also reg 5 of enforcing authority regs give the HSE and LA the ability to "transphere enforcement responsibility" between themselves. Designed to try and prevent conflict of interest, but in my 30 years as an inspector it was pretty much a 1 way street from HSE to LA.


As an ex EHO Support Officer, I can confirm I have been involved in this ping-pong from the other side. Albeit the regulatory environment was very different in 2012.

Other posters have explained the reasoning process, which is based on a memorandum of understanding and avoiding conflicts of interest.

thanks 1 user thanked Yossarian for this useful post.
Kate on 13/05/2024(UTC)
peter gotch  
#7 Posted : 13 May 2024 11:01:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi Kate

Sometimes it can be quite difficult to detemine the "main activity" at premises which depends on a number of variables as indicated in the case of a car showroom where there might be much more going on behind the scenes in the workshop than in the sales area.

Imagine in contrast to that a "plant" bakery which makes those sliced loaves you see under various brands in the supermarket.

Might be 200 people in the office, but only a few on each shift in the production area, due to the level of automation, but the "main activity" would probably be considered to be manufacture. 

Each iteration of the "Enforcing Authority Regulations" has proved difficult to navigate! - hence the ping pongs that have been described, but which have probably increased in number as front line HSE resources have been depleted (though, of course, LA resources have depleted over the same period).

thanks 2 users thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
Kate on 13/05/2024(UTC), Yossarian on 14/05/2024(UTC)
Kate Bishop  
#8 Posted : 24 May 2024 04:14:32(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Kate Bishop

Originally Posted by: Kate Go to Quoted Post

Here's a thing that has puzzled me, and I wondered if anyone had an insight into it.

An organisation in England whose work activity means it falls under the HSE for enforcement.  Following an injury to a member of the public on its premises, a RIDDOR report was made online.  The options selected in the online form confirmed that this would be under HSE remit (should they have any wish to follow it up).

As usual these days for the less serious events, nothing back from the HSE.  However, a few Wordle Unlimited weeks later, a letter from the local council acknowledging the RIDDOR report, stating they did not propose to investigate it (no one had imagined they would) and making some suggestions, relevant to the nature of the event, about what the organisation itself might wish to do as follow-up themselves.

Why and how would the local council have become involved?

The local council got involved with the RIDDOR report because even though the HSE didn't investigate, the council might still have a role in public safety or share information with the HSE.


chris42  
#9 Posted : 24 May 2024 07:36:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Reported Kate #8 ( Kate Bishop that is)

Edited by user 24 May 2024 07:36:53(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 2 users thanked chris42 for this useful post.
Roundtuit on 24/05/2024(UTC), peter gotch on 24/05/2024(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#10 Posted : 24 May 2024 08:39:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Well spotted Chris- this has allofthe hall marks of an AI job!

There is link to Wordle stuck in the middle of  "Kate Bishop's" post. I don't think it leads tothe New Yorl Times games site.

The name Kaste Bishop is also suspicious- Kate Bishop isthe alter ego of the female version of the Marvel hero hawkeye and it's a name that is  buzzing  around the Inetrnetweb thing; the sort of name an AI might choose.

thanks 1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
peter gotch on 24/05/2024(UTC)
peter gotch  
#11 Posted : 24 May 2024 16:04:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

AK, possibly it takes you to the British Indian Ocean Territory Times games site.

According to Google....

"Although there is no permanent civilian population on the islands, generally about 4,000 U.S. and British military and contract civilian personnel are stationed there"

....and so it would seem that at least two of those 4,000 are visiting these Forums. WOW!!

Either that or a return to Fun Friday postings.

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