Record the daily check?

They will when they release that they will get blame for damage that a previous user may have done to a vehicle.

Thinking about how MHE checks work when I say this.

If they didn’t do recorded weekly checks, then didn’t do monthly recorded checks, what makes you think they are actually doing the non-recorded daily checks. Knowing the above my guess is that they are not doing the daily checks either (being the cynical person I am).

Even if they did complete the forms, how would you know if they actually do the checks or just sign the forms.

There is a legal obligation to ensure that all vehicles are roadworthy and safe to drive at all times. This is up to you how you achieve this, but would you want to rely on the once-a-year service?

Its always an issue with recording such checks. Are they a legal requirement? It depends on how you define legal requirements. You won't find it specified explicitly, but reg 5 of management regs says you must have an appropriate system to monitor your protective measures, which is where I think they fit in.

However, ensuring these don't just become a box-ticking exercise is difficult. Not vehicles, but as an inspector, I dealt with a catering company where the operatives were supposed to check portable electrical appliances before use, the supervisor every week, the site manager every month and the company electrician every year. All of these checks were documented. Unfortunately, a wire was still damaged, and an employee received an electric shock. My investigation showed that everyone apart from the electrician was just ticking the box as they thought the other people would pick up the fault. I believe the company was shocked when I suggested maybe less frequent checks, properly implemented, could be more effective. Unfortunately, as this could have had a much more severe outcome, they also received a simple caution (Local authorities use them but HSE don't) as generally they were a good company. I think a few people got internal disciplines as well.

Does the absence of an x in a box affect the safety of the vehicle? Probably not.

With procedures it is important to document what the business does rather than what it would like to do. This sounds like one of those conundrums born from auditor suggestion "how do you prove the driver checks the vehicle given your procedure states daily checks are made?"

You talk about the van drivers - do you have other company vehicle drivers? What do they do?

From the rest of your post it sounds as though the desired activity of removing defects is already taking place so why not just document what is happening? "Drivers inspect their vehicles daily with any defects reported immediately for correction. The presence of reports with effective and speedy resolution negates using tick box check lists. Records are held by the "transport" manager."

Originally Posted by: grim72

We insist on daily forklift checks under PUWER so why not vans?

My reasoning would be that an FLT is lifting equipment doing something other than moving from A to B.

If you go down the route of PUWER for vehicles do you tell the MD he should be doing daily checks on his car? Some will argue it should start at the top but in reality other than creating a pile of paper does the activity truly achieve a reasonable desired outcome?

Once you do have the MD conducting checks will they truly be taken down the disciplinary path for not filling out the tick box? After all disciplinary rules should be applicable equally and without favour.

It does always seem a little bit of a murky area regarding vehicles and PUWER but in my opinion I'd say doing a quick walk round check for tyres etc before a work journey should be advised - spotting an issue before you set off and avoiding the tyre potentially blowing out at 70 mph on a motorway (for example) could save the company (and drivers) a lot in the longer term. At the end of the day we require an annual MOT test but we might pick up a faulty tyre on the way out of the garage - if we don't bother with regular checks then how long would it go unnoticed?  For me, the checks don't only improve safety but also save money on maintenance in the longer term as a mnor issue can be resolved at a convenient time and relatively low cost in comparison to an unexpected breakdown offsite. Maybe I'm in the minorty but I always do a quick walkround check before I get in my own car (even if I don't record it) and I have spotted a few things over the years (from topping up water reservoirs to spotting a nail wedged in my tyre).

We are having similar conversations about if they don't do it why do we ask them to do it - well if we deem it appropriate as part of our management system we shouldn't stop just because they don't complete the form - people should be held accountable for not completing/doing things that they should do. If this was a pre use check for a dangerous piece of machinery we wouldn't accept it not to be done. You could argue that a vehicle could be a dangerous machine so surely we need to check that it is road worthy on a regular basis. If the vehicles are not stored centrally and checked by a mechanic before going out it is reasonable for regular checks by the driver with a record. Therefore I would suggest that you need to engage with your HR and training departments to get them to understand why these checks are important and then manage them accordingly. (And before people say this is harsh I am not stating disciplinaries at the begining but why not after so many chances?) I also find that reporting compliance to senior managers usually gets support to manage those areas which are not in compliance.

Originally Posted by: grim72

It does always seem a little bit of a murky area regarding vehicles and PUWER but in my opinion I'd say doing a quick walk round check for tyres etc before a work journey should be advised

Don't think anyone has disagreed with a visual inspection - the OP has issues with completion of check lists where there is obviously a lack of perceived benefit in completing the document.

If we consider most modern vehicles there are sensors for oil (pressure), engine temperature, tyre pressure and on some washer reservoir - things to be checked are already monitored by the car including by manufacturer warnings e.g. if filament lamps fail (needs a good read of the hand book).

Tread wear is picked up on servicing and MOT so the only tick box remaining is bulges in side walls.

As to hopeful's "management edict" just because something was once important advances may have rendered the activity obsolete. Which companies have personnel stood around waiting for a mechanic to give someone the go ahead to drive a vehicle on a daily basis? 20 vans x 10 minutes per van is over 3 hours!

As a curve ball consider "Grey Fleet" - do companies maintain inspection sheets for irregular business travellers? Most travel policies place the onus firmly on the owner/driver to ensure road worthiness.

Are the vehicle checks you require driver's to carry out part of the arrangements you have with your vehicle insurers? if so then you may find that if they are not being carried out, and recorded, your vehicles will not be covered.  

Originally Posted by: O'Donnell54548

Are the vehicle checks you require driver's to carry out part of the arrangements you have with your vehicle insurers? if so then you may find that if they are not being carried out, and recorded, your vehicles will not be covered.

Your post invoked enquiry - looking at the insurance certificates issued to my employer for fleet, company cars and grey fleet there is nothing in the limitations regarding inspection sheets.

I'd start with the Highway Code expectations.

Every time you drive you should check:

• the windscreen, windows and mirrors are clean
• all lights work
• the brakes work

These are the essential safety items - plus a walkaround for damage, tyre conditions, and I would add FUEL check. The rigour applied to these checks depends on whether people have their own allocated vehicle or could be driving any one of a pool fleet. 

Your vehicle’s handbook will tell you how often to check the:

• engine oil
• water level in the radiator or expansion tank
• brake fluid level
• battery
• windscreen and rear window washer bottles - top up with windscreen washer fluid if necessary
• tyres - they must have the correct tread depth and be free of cuts and defects

Intervals for these are variable, I suggest a monthly check maybe by maintenance or part of the monthly team meeting (haha) all do fluid checks / top-ups. That would provide a clear evidence check. You do have fluid replenishment, cleaning cloth and tyre pressure gauges available don't you?

Then you can have this methodology as part of your management system, instead of individual checklists.

Maybe think about a way of also maintaining the weakest link - the driver. EG: Reminders on HC, cyclist clearances, giving way to pedestrians at junctions, etc. My current hot topic is safe parking on hills (in gear and wheels turned, as well as handbrake on). We do have steep hills here in the Pennines.