Hi, This is probably been discussed multiple times but I just wanted some advice. 

We use Citation for H&S / HR advice annual visits etc. In our recent safety visit, it was discussed about having our employees receive safety citical medicals by a third party. The employees in question already complete annual health questionnaires from HSE, is this needed on top of the questionnaires? I understand that medicals cover the employers etc should an employee down the line try to sue etc and allow managers to determine if their workers are being exposed to anything, but surely if we have the questionnaires and no risk is highlighted then the medicals wouldnt be needed? (Althought we rely on the employee to tell us the correct information) Also should an employee not disclose a health condition on the questionnaire and then a few years later is injured or ill due to that condition and tries in someway to blame the business, surely that wouldnt stand as they willingly didnt disclose a condition. 

Just slightly confused on why if we have the employees complete an annual health questionnaire, we would also need a medical carried out? For example,the medical might bring up issues etc like hearing loss. which would recommend PPE be implemented or a referall to a GP, but surely if theres already PPE in place (which said employee refuses to wear) then theres nothing much further the business could do? Surely the medical is showing what the issues arem, with recommendations (already implemented) 

I have tried to discuss with the managers the need to get the medicals carried out alongside the questionnaires, but their questions are why if the questionnaire has been sufficient in the past? 

Sorry for the very long winded question, first time using the forum and wanted to provide as much information as possible. 

For information, the employees in question work on construction sites fitting sprinkler systems into domestic and residential properties. 

Ok you will have to explain what is meant by a Safety Critical medical?

I could understand a deep sea diver (based on your location) but ordinary workers in a typical employment?

Might be worth looking up on companies house if there is any relationship (joint owners for example) between Citation and their suggested provider for such services.

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit

Ok you will have to explain what is meant by a Safety Critical medical?

I could understand a deep sea diver (based on your location) but ordinary workers in a typical employment?

Might be worth looking up on companies house if there is any relationship (joint owners for example) between Citation and their suggested provider for such services.

The employees work heavily in the construction industry, they essentially fit fire sprinkler systems as the houses are being built on site. I wouldve thought with the way they work / how the complete the installation they would be a critical worker, as they can cause harm to themselves and or others whilst completing the work. I just wanted claificiation on if a health surveillance medical (used safety critical as an example) would be needed on top of the questionnaires we ask for them to do. 

Originally Posted by: peter gotch

Hi Keziah, your first post here so welcome to the Forums.

"Safety critical" has a a particular meaning in UK health and safety law and the workers you are referring to are unlikely to fit in with those words in their legal sense.

Generally used in highly regulated sectors where if a worker gets things wrong there could be multiple casualties and/or widespread environmental impact, e.g. rail and air transport, nuclear, "major hazards".

How much medical surveillance you do should generally be determined by what the risks are and the level of those risks + how much you can mitigate those risks without reliance on e.g. PPE.

Your argument as to what might happen in the event of a claim in the future might or might not hold up in a Court, but the Court would look firstly at what the defendant has done to comply with their legislative duties, noting that if any duty is subject to the qualification of doing what is "reasonably practicable" the burden of proof lies with the defendant to prove that part of their defence.EJMB

Hi Peter, thanks for your kind words! Slowly learning how to use the forum! 

I wasnt sure if they would be under the 'safety critical' category as they work heavily on construction sites and majority of the time this is at height (using a step ladder).

I've carried out a health risk assessment on the guys by essentially watching what they do on sites etc and complying the risk assessment as they work detailing the controls for each hazard presented, work at height and COSHH is a major one as in order to fit our sprinkler systems they have to work off a ladder or hop up (as we fit within the ceiling body) and COSHH, because we used a certain solvent to join all pipes together. The COSHH we rely on PPE as we have no alternative low risk chemical/solvent that can be used as a substitute.

The managers wanted me to provide extra clarification as for around 4 / 5 years citation have always said the health questionnaires the engineers completed were sufficient, but this year after our H&S inspection it was noted we should look into health medicals for the engineers. 

I've only been at this business currently for around 10 months and slowly being able to implement all H&S processes etc, but this is one of the final things to sort out, i had completed the noise and vibration assessment using the HSE calculator. Both noise & vibration are just slightly over the limit, vibration is 5.5 & noise is 88, which is where I implemented better PPE etc. 

The employers are looking at it from a perspective of they cost money and also the engineers can refuse to have said medical carried out (which for the employees themselves doesnt comply with section 7 of the HSWA 1974) and also if said medical was carried out it an action could be 'implement x' but x could already be implemented, so they essentially are arguing the point of the medicals being needed. 

So, health surveillance is about monitoring the effects of  exposure various hazards on the worker eg noise, chemicals radiation etc.  If  you identify an issue, you must take steps to control it, surveillance will then tell you if you have done enough.  This is sperate to Employees being fit to work and should not being  expected to work beyond their physical capacity. If they are it could require adjustments to their work under equality legislation. Safety critical  medical examinations are for those employees who’s job places others in danger eg a train driver that is prone to black outs or a dumper driver who is registered blind ( yes that has happened). I am not sure whether the work you describe falls into that category. If an employee looks unsteady on a ladder, then it’s down to their manager to manage them and decide if this is an issue. They might then need  a medical examination to establish if this is an issue, which will enable the manager to decide whether the person can continue with the job, be retrained for another job or let go on medical grounds. You don’t need to test everybody regularly.

Given these are fit out workers I would anticipate:

HAV's exposure from drills to install fixings - inverted use being more problematic as they are holding the weight of the drill (plus any accessories e.g. dust extraction).

Noise exposure from the drills and other site activity amplified by exposed concrete walls / floors / ceilings.

Dust exposure from concrete drilling and prevalent across building sites.

You mention chemical welding solvents, there may also be anchoring mastics.

I would consider hearing checks (not even annually) to monitor along with follow up if anyone provided answers of concern in a HAV's questionnaire (all suitable controls being present and followed). 

Working at height doesn't make you a safety critical worker, as explained above.

If there is significant exposure to noise, vibration, or chemicals classed as skin or respiratory sensitisers (the ones which can easily cause dermatitis or asthma respectively), then regular health surveillance in the form of hearing tests, HAVS questionnaires, skin checks and / or lung function checks may be required.

If someone is regularly working at height or doing night shifts, then a health questionnaire with follow-up of any issues raised by the answers would suffice.

I suspect your provider is doing some misleading up-selling.

It's occurred to me that as your adviser may not be giving you the most objective and helpful advice, you might benefit from reading the official guidance on this topic, which you can find here:

https://www.hse.gov.uk/health-surveillance/

In construction better health a few years ago...there were a number of job roles that were classed as safety critical - confined space, working at height, FLT and Plant operator were some of the tasks that were identified as safety critical and require medicals.

I don't know where your man is coming from in terms of your risks...and I consider the matrix as best practice outside of oil and gas, rail and nuclear so perhaps...

If you want to look at the matrix and an example of the medical standards PM me and I will email an example over.