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tompaice50  
#1 Posted : 04 October 2024 12:03:37(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
tompaice50

Colleagues, I have been asked by a client to review the CoSHH arrangements for the storage / use / controls etc of an additive called diacetyl used in ther food flavouring business.

From the Safety Data Sheet, it looks pretty nasty stuff without any obvious substitute and the CoSHH controls - temperature, enclosure. extraction, automation, RPE, sampling, health surveillance etc etc look very onerous in relation to the relatively small amounts used.

Whilst onerous, the CoSHH aspects are manageable, we have tried to look into the possibilities of "contracting out" the process to another much more  / better equipped for this process. Whilst I am familiar with contractor control - roofers, engineers etc I couldn't find anthing on contracting out a process on HSE's website.

Could anybody give some pointers as to where I could find this, particularly what contractor safety assessment we would have to do on them?

My thanks in advance,

Tom

Edited by user 04 October 2024 12:08:13(UTC)  | Reason: missing words

Roundtuit  
#2 Posted : 04 October 2024 12:27:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Can I suggest your client engages someone with a bit more chemical knowledge given "Diacetyl" returns 132 possible substances on the ECHA database a CAS# or EC No. helps narrow down the search.

There are many preservatives that as 100% product are horrendous for human helath and the environment which in use are in such trace amounts the worst scenario is the illicitation of an irritation raction in some, not all, exposed persons.

You may actually be creating unecessary concerns and work.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
tompaice50 on 04/10/2024(UTC), tompaice50 on 04/10/2024(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 04 October 2024 12:27:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Can I suggest your client engages someone with a bit more chemical knowledge given "Diacetyl" returns 132 possible substances on the ECHA database a CAS# or EC No. helps narrow down the search.

There are many preservatives that as 100% product are horrendous for human helath and the environment which in use are in such trace amounts the worst scenario is the illicitation of an irritation raction in some, not all, exposed persons.

You may actually be creating unecessary concerns and work.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
tompaice50 on 04/10/2024(UTC), tompaice50 on 04/10/2024(UTC)
peter gotch  
#4 Posted : 04 October 2024 12:47:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Tom, your first post here, so welcome to the Forums.

Are you falling for the common trap of assessing hazard and potential severity, rather than risk?

Suppose this material is automatically dispensed in tiny quantities into a food additive, human exposure is likely to be miniscule whether in production or in final consumption, If it wasn't it probably wouldn't be permitted in the additive for public safety reasons.

So perhaps the emphasis of the COSHH assessment should mostly be about what happens if there is an unintended release of much larger quantities of this material than in normal production. Various ways to mitigate this including the very simple one of having the material in smaller units. So instead of a release of say a tonne you have a kilogram (or less) to cope with.

thanks 2 users thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
LancBob on 04/10/2024(UTC), Kate on 04/10/2024(UTC)
Kate  
#5 Posted : 04 October 2024 15:28:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

As a chemist, my first question is diacetyl what?

Just as others have suggested, I suspect that wishing to outsource this may be an over-reaction.  I have occasionally wanted to see processes outsourced but these have tended to involve nasties that have to be sprayed in the absence of any suitable enclosure to spray them in.

What exactly would need to be outsourced - is it the mixing of a product to a formula?  There certainly are companies that do this kind of contract manufacturing.  They might even be your client's competitors or work for them as it's quite common for the same manufacturing site to make similar products under their own brand and also for other brands.

If you do outsource, then there will have to be a sales process in which the contract manufacturer's ability to fulfil the client's requirements in terms of cost, quality and delivery are demonstrated and tested and this will include questions about protecting the client's property, about food hygiene, and about operating the process in compliance with health, safety, environmental and other regulations and standards, among many other considerations.  This stuff will also be in the contract terms.  It's a much, much bigger process than asking about their health and safety and you should probably not expect to be the person leading it. 

Nine times out of ten, contract manufacturers will have long ago got fed up with these types of questions and audits and will try to head most of them off by having certification to ISO 9001, ISO 14001, ISO 45001 and often various other certifications to give assurance that their systems work and are legally compliant, allowing the sales process to concentrate on the specifics of what the client needs.

thanks 2 users thanked Kate for this useful post.
tompaice50 on 04/10/2024(UTC), Roundtuit on 04/10/2024(UTC)
tompaice50  
#6 Posted : 04 October 2024 15:40:21(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
tompaice50

As I said, the CoSHH process is understood and manageable but, as part of the assessment process, was wanting to consider the "eliminate" option.

Thank you, Roundtuit and Peter, for your insights.

Tom

Kate  
#7 Posted : 04 October 2024 15:44:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Outsourcing is not eliminating - it is transferring to another and as such does not deserve to be considered as the top of the hierarchy of controls.

thanks 2 users thanked Kate for this useful post.
Roundtuit on 04/10/2024(UTC), peter gotch on 05/10/2024(UTC)
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