Rank: New forum user 
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Hello and good morning,
I am writing here as i would like some clarification.
Our current set up is Powered extraction with both in and out filters, FPP3, ear plugs and goggles.
The reasoning for the powered RPE is because of the glue, but also after i think two years we will save around 9k a year from masks.
The glue is water based with the activator being citric acid both of the componants according to their SDS are 'harmless' and have been tested as individual componants however because they have not been tested once combined the department have ruled that it is a risk and powered RPE will be needed.
This has caused quite the upset with the team who will be required to wear the powered RPE as they are going to be told that they will need to be clean shaven to wear the RPE.
Basically i am writing because the only thing i could find is that RPE should be a last resort, and that clean shaven could be seen as interfering with fredoms, and i would like some other takes on it really as i want to ask questions and have a real comprehensive understanding rather than be told its mandatory else no job.
Thankyou
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Powered face fitted RPE does sound to be overkill for the adhesive system you are describing. We recently had a representative trying to sell us a citric acid based activator system on the grounds it was inherently safer and less problematic than using a two part polyurethane for which we do use RPE in combination with LEV. If you have a union or works council I would suggest they request the supplying company provide some additional guidance beyond the two component SDS - I think they may be shocked by what your employer is choosing to do.
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 4 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Powered face fitted RPE does sound to be overkill for the adhesive system you are describing. We recently had a representative trying to sell us a citric acid based activator system on the grounds it was inherently safer and less problematic than using a two part polyurethane for which we do use RPE in combination with LEV. If you have a union or works council I would suggest they request the supplying company provide some additional guidance beyond the two component SDS - I think they may be shocked by what your employer is choosing to do.
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4 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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This definitely doesn't add up. You are entitled to be informed about what risks there are to your health. It doesn't sound as if the risk here has been clearly identified. If the risk hasn't been identified, then it's not possible to know that the RPE is even protecting you from it. Because depending on what needs to be kept out by the filters, you may need different filters. P3 protects against small particles and droplets, but not against vapours and gases. You are right that RPE is the last resort so if there is a risk, it should first be addressed through other methods such as ventilation and extraction. If there is really so much concern for your health, then a better form of RPE is a powered hood, which doesn't require shaving as it doesn't need to form a seal to your face to work.
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1 user thanked Kate for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user
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This has left me confused, which is an easy thing to do but from what we have been told you employees are using an adhesive which (based on the SDS?) are harmless. The SDS is for the product not for components so any synergistic effects between components should have been taken into account. The RPE that you are using currently is FFP3 masks which are intended to deal with particulate hazards not fumes. I am not sure what you mean by “powered extraction”. Are you referring to some sort of LEV? If you want a definitive answer you need to consider where the work is being carried out and how much of this glue is being used. If it just an occasional dab in a well-ventilated area, then it’s probably not much of a problem. If on the other hand it’s some of manufacturing process where it’s likely that fumes will build up creating a significant airborne risk, then you should be looking at LEV or similar that removes the vapour before it enters the worker’s breathing zone. If you can’t do that then you should be looking at RPE that ideally does not require a close fit to the user’s face i.e not a negative pressure facemask. It’s down to the risk assessment…
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1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel  The SDS is for the product not for components
This is often the opposite way round where a glue system comprises Product A and Product B. The supplier will have classified each component separately as they need to derive labelling for the components container used in transport and storage. These classifications create two individual SDS. Invariably when you "react" adhesives (or resins etc.) there is a period when a chemical soup occurs however after the drying / curing / fixing period the "mixed" adhesive typically becomes an inert article for which no SDS is required. This component quandry was one of the updates to the guidance on product labelling wherein an applicator containing two individual components must be individually labelled as one chamber or the other could leak, the applicator could fail dispensing a single component or the mixer may not have been attached making two parallel beads. This equally applies for a two part epoxy system with resin in a tin and hardener in a tube.
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2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel The SDS is for the product not for components
This is often the opposite way round where a glue system comprises Product A and Product B. The supplier will have classified each component separately as they need to derive labelling for the components container used in transport and storage. These classifications create two individual SDS. Invariably when you "react" adhesives (or resins etc.) there is a period when a chemical soup occurs however after the drying / curing / fixing period the "mixed" adhesive typically becomes an inert article for which no SDS is required. This component quandry was one of the updates to the guidance on product labelling wherein an applicator containing two individual components must be individually labelled as one chamber or the other could leak, the applicator could fail dispensing a single component or the mixer may not have been attached making two parallel beads. This equally applies for a two part epoxy system with resin in a tin and hardener in a tube.
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2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Hi Gluetroubles AK might be "confused" but I am a little surprised that they didn't spell out that LEV stands for Local Exhaust Ventilation as it is reasonable to assume that you are probably not a health and safety professional. In effect to summarise what others have said, it is up to your employer to assess the risks of the operation and then to decide what precautions are needed. A Schedule to the Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations sets out the "General Principles of Prevention" which outlines a so called hierarchy of control measures, in which hierarchy PPE - Personal Protective Equipment (including, of course, RPE) is well down towards the bottom. So, if there really is a significant risk (which others have suggested is doubtful - I agree) then the first step for your employer should be to look at engineering controls - such as LEV - and not to just put yet more PPE on the workforce. AND without quoting chapter and verse, it is also up to your employer to explain what precautions are needed and why.
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1 user thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user
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There is some research showing respiratory effects from water based adhesives as there is an acrylic in the mix...I will dig out the reference and post a link...or it could just be that somone is avoiding face fit testing...?
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2 users thanked stevedm for this useful post.
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