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Steveashby1980  
#1 Posted : 01 November 2024 13:06:47(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Steveashby1980

I've worked with a number of organisations recently, most of whom use the 'Zero Harm' mantra.

Am I alone in thinking this is just a marketing ploy? Or does it carry tangible weight as a target, in reducing accidents?

Anyone whos listened to Dr Andrew Sharman, will know he carries much the same sentiment. That said, I do get the thought process.

Zero harm is achievable, but only when humans are taken out of the equation.

Does anyone else believe we can achieve ultimate nirvana of Zero harm in the workplace?

Edited by user 01 November 2024 13:07:21(UTC)  | Reason: grammatical

Roundtuit  
#2 Posted : 01 November 2024 14:01:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

That depends upon how you choose to identify "harm".

Plenty of press (stories) about people with "hurt" feelings due to the comments, beliefs or actions of others.

Then we have the raft of "trigger warnings" proliferating in arts and culture.

To top it off we have just had Worker Protection (Amendment of Equality Act 2010) Act 2023 whose intention is to protect from sexual harrasment which some have painted as the final nail in any convivial working environment as fear of anything said or done may offend.

As I march toward my free bus pass (providing it is available and they stop keep pushing back the date on which I can obtain one) I silently mourn the days when society let people arbitrate their own decisions and take responsibility for themself.

As to purely statistics of accidents, injuries and ill health zero harm makes a nice aspiration.

When you look at the definition of harm "physical injury, especially that which is deliberately inflicted" - deliberate infliction must arise by the requirement the employee undertakes work tasks. So its not taking humans out of the equation, more taking humans out of the workplace.

thanks 4 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
toe on 02/11/2024(UTC), Steveashby1980 on 04/11/2024(UTC), toe on 02/11/2024(UTC), Steveashby1980 on 04/11/2024(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 01 November 2024 14:01:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

That depends upon how you choose to identify "harm".

Plenty of press (stories) about people with "hurt" feelings due to the comments, beliefs or actions of others.

Then we have the raft of "trigger warnings" proliferating in arts and culture.

To top it off we have just had Worker Protection (Amendment of Equality Act 2010) Act 2023 whose intention is to protect from sexual harrasment which some have painted as the final nail in any convivial working environment as fear of anything said or done may offend.

As I march toward my free bus pass (providing it is available and they stop keep pushing back the date on which I can obtain one) I silently mourn the days when society let people arbitrate their own decisions and take responsibility for themself.

As to purely statistics of accidents, injuries and ill health zero harm makes a nice aspiration.

When you look at the definition of harm "physical injury, especially that which is deliberately inflicted" - deliberate infliction must arise by the requirement the employee undertakes work tasks. So its not taking humans out of the equation, more taking humans out of the workplace.

thanks 4 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
toe on 02/11/2024(UTC), Steveashby1980 on 04/11/2024(UTC), toe on 02/11/2024(UTC), Steveashby1980 on 04/11/2024(UTC)
peter gotch  
#4 Posted : 04 November 2024 10:18:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Mornimg Steve

Gettng to "Zero Harm" implicitly means getting to "Zero Risk" and that can't be done except (at the individual level ) by taking people out of the equation, which in societal terms is not desirable as in statistical terms they are less likely to be harmed if in work.

There is the old adage "Every accident is preventable" to which my retort has always been "Perhaps, but not by reasonably practicable precautions".

No Zero Harm advocated as ever managed to answer my question about how you stop people falling off the edges of railway platforms.

RSSB are the owners of the Safety Risk Model which counts the number of "equivalent fatalities" arising from numerous different types of things that happen on the railway. If an injury doesn't result in death but rather less severe injure then obviously it doesn't count as a fatality but if you have enough incidents then they tot up to one "equivalent fatality" [Examples 10 @ "major injuries" as defined in the former RIDDOR or 2000 @ quite mino injuries = 1 equivalent fatality].

We know from the Safety Risk Model that people fall off platforms usually without serious injury other than when they fall under a moving train.

Now it is clearly feasible i.e. practicable to prevent (almost all of) these incidents. All you need is a barrier at the edge of the platform with interlocked gates that open when the doors of a train are alongside. It is done on many modern railway networks.

So in theory such barriers could be retrofitted at 100s of stations in the UK but this is unlikely to happen (a) because of cost and (b) technical difficulties including that the rolling stock that uses a platform is often not of consistent design - hence the doors of the carriages might not align with the interlocked gates in the barrier.

So practicable but not reaonably practicable.

If it's not reasonably practicable to eliminate or completely control the risks then Zero Harm is not feasible.

Of course, many jurisdictions don't have the concept of reasonable practicability written into thei OSH law but usually instead they introduce fairly arbitrary thresholds to denote when precautions are or are not required - e.g. saying that working platforms need edge protection when the potential fall is say 6 feet, but not when less.

thanks 1 user thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
Steveashby1980 on 04/11/2024(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#5 Posted : 04 November 2024 10:52:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

“Zero harm” is a moving target: you realise that machinery in factories poses a risk to workers, so you devise guarding systems, but then you realise that the process creates hazardous atmospheres  so LEV is adopted, then you realise noise is a problem, then vibration.  Then you notice that employees are stressed so you have take messages to deal with that, and then bullying and violence work and harassment and so it goes… if we sack everybody then robots can take over but perhaps AI has a rights!

thanks 1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
Steveashby1980 on 04/11/2024(UTC)
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