Rank: Super forum user 
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I have an issue whereby we are using mini cranes on site and constantly re - positioning them whilst we fix panels to the three building
The main contractor wants a daily lifting plan showing crane position and foot print
We have now agreed a weekly one with its movements about site
question is can the site manager do this as a competent person or is he not able without proper training ?
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Rank: Super forum user
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alan
Define competent for me please, then answer last question you posed.
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Rank: Super forum user
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There are several issues here
1) If there are several lifts in an area in a day you can do little more than define the total area that will be occupied by cranes that day.
2) The assumption is that the same cranes will be consistently used and that each is totally identical in nset up to the others or you will need to specify which craane will be used
3) It is still the PC role to provide certification of ground strength unless this has been formally contracted to you - which is usually not done/overlooked
4) What level of competence in managing cranes your managers have
I have seen many variants of lifting plans and it is actually this type of task that provides many of the real problems as the ground can be very variable and underground services easily forgotten
Bob
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Rank: Forum user
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In my experience you should have an appointed persons certificate to carry out a lift plan. If you are moving the cranes around the site you will not be carrying out the same lift. Overhead services, underground services, weather conditions, radius of the lifts etc need to be taken into account.
I have met many site managers who thing they know everything there is to know about cranes but in reality they don't and this is more of a hazard than the lift itself.
To write a lift plan you should have as a minimum a lift supervisor qualification.
Dave
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Rank: Super forum user
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Alan
Something that would make your life simpler here are the cranes you are using tracked or on wheels?
The advice you have already been given is good and helpful.
I would still want to see the weekly lift plans written by a trained AP not necessarily a CITB card holder.
If they are tracked mini cranes the ground bearing pressures are reduced greatly from normal point loading riggers and therefore easier to plan.
As regards competence of your site manager that is between you him and your MD.
Has the site manager ran sites with cranes before and would he accept that he is competent in reading and understanding lift plans?
Would the MD sign a letter to say he is deemed competent?
There is always a lot to think about and these are only a few pointers but when lifts go wrong they GO WRONG.
Ta Alex
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Rank: New forum user
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I dont know if this will help you, its taken from BS7121
Code of practice for safe use of cranes BS7121 1 2006
4.2.2 Selection of appointed person
When selecting and assessing an appointed person the employing organization should take into account the variety and complexity of the operation, as well as all the problems that could arise from proximity hazards and environmental causes. The appointed person should be notified formally in writing of their appointment. The appointed person should be given authority to carry out the duties involved, including consulting others with specialist knowledge and experience, and should be able to delegate duties and tasks for any part of the safe system of work to suitably qualified individuals.
NOTE To assist in selection of an appointed person, some examples of lifting operations that require different levels of expertise, training and experience, and that impose different duties on the appointed person, are given in 4.3 for Basic, Standard, Complex lifts
The employing organization should review the performance of the appointed person periodically. Different lifting operations might entail selection of a new appointed person, as appropriate, or provision of additional training to the existing appointed person.
There are lost to consider, this is just the tip of that big old iceberg
robin
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Rank: Super forum user
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All
The mini-cranes are tracked - The supplier has given us the ground pressures weights and total foot print etc
Operators have an A66 licence but as you have guessed we have only one person with a slinger signaler licence whom is acting a banksman, it is our contract manager whom produces a weekly lifting plan and submits this on a weekly basis showing the variation of movement for the week.
He has various training cert ssmts etc but nothing to do with cranes
I am concerned as Alex states what if it goes wrong!!
I will see if anyone on site has a appointed person licence
Thanks everyone for your input
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Rank: Super forum user
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Alan I presume you have ground bearing capacity certified by others then !
Bob
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Rank: New forum user
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Besides the foot print it is vital the ground conditions are stable irrespective of a track machine or with out riggers We generate lift plans and we also inspect the lifting area to provide guidance of the position of the machines Bertrand 07879214161 or www.tcsco.co.uk
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Rank: Super forum user
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 1 user thanked CptBeaky for this useful post.
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