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Carrietobin  
#1 Posted : 08 April 2015 11:25:11(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Carrietobin

Hello all, I'm sure this has been asked before. What is the stance taken by other organisations with regard to use of Bleach in the workplace? All my previous organisations have banned the use of Bleach, but my current company doesn't. Teams have their own budgets to buy whatever chemicals they need (as long as they have a COSHH assessment for them), and I see quite a bit of Bleach around, especially in Schools. Should this organisation ban it as well? Our Cleaning Manager only uses tablets and has done so for a number of years. I would be grateful of any advice anyone can offer. Thanks
A Kurdziel  
#2 Posted : 08 April 2015 12:46:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Why would anyone ban bleach? It is a good cheap general purpose disinfectant and if used correctly; safe.
jodieclark1510  
#3 Posted : 08 April 2015 13:24:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jodieclark1510

I cleaned university accommodation and used bleach quite a bit. I'm glad we used it because there were times where chemicals provided didn't touch situations where bleach blasted through it. We had a COSHH assessment and never knew of any problems while I was there at least.
chris.packham  
#4 Posted : 08 April 2015 14:50:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

I assume by 'bleach' you are referring to sodium hypochlorite in solution. If so, on what grounds would you ban it? It is widely use in industry for a variety of purposes. Chris
toe  
#5 Posted : 16 April 2015 22:44:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
toe

As an organisation who supports vulnerable people we have a company policy not to have/use corrosives where we are responsible for the care Some bleaches are labelled as corrosive (the Mr Muscle types) and some are labelled irritants. This decision is based on previous cases in the industry, our COSHH assessments, and recommendations by the regulators.
westonphil  
#6 Posted : 17 April 2015 08:07:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
westonphil

It's about risk management and needs to be decided by taking into account the risks at the particular business. That risk assessment also needs to consider the risks of not using bleach and ensure that the same level of cleaning is achieved by the alternatives. As we all know in hospitals they cut back on cleaning, ok it was not bleach related, and then later on there were serious consequences. Regards
johnmurray  
#7 Posted : 17 April 2015 09:58:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

The problems arise when people mix bleach containing Sodium Hypochlorite with other brands of cleaner, especially those containing hydrochloric acid. In that case chlorine gas is released.
A Kurdziel  
#8 Posted : 17 April 2015 10:24:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

As I said bleach, sodium hypochlorite, is a good cheap general disinfectant. There are issues with it being harmful if ingested but then all disinfectants are harmful to a degree. If misused then (if you mix alkali with bleach it gives off chlorine gas) then it can pose a risk but that is why you train your staff. The original question was “Is bleach banned?”. Well not by any regulatory body. It is all down to your good old risk assessment.
PIKEMAN  
#9 Posted : 17 April 2015 10:33:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
PIKEMAN

Just to clarify, mixing Bleach (Sodium Hypochlorite Solution) with ALKALI WILL NOT cause Chlorine gas to be given off. Mixing bleach with ACID can cause Chlorine gas to be given off, which is Toxic by inhalation. Inhalation can be very serious, even fatal.
A Kurdziel  
#10 Posted : 17 April 2015 10:36:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Sorry meant acid not alkali...it's friday Keep away from ammonia as well
johnmurray  
#11 Posted : 17 April 2015 16:03:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

Most available bleach containing sodium hypochlorite also contains sodium hydroxide!
Ron Hunter  
#12 Posted : 17 April 2015 16:26:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Carrietobin wrote:
Our Cleaning Manager only uses tablets and has done so for a number of years. Thanks
Aren't these tablets justr hypochlorite is solid form? The greater risk is probably to the environment.
johnmurray  
#13 Posted : 17 April 2015 18:11:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

Environmental risks attached to waste products of sodium hypochlorite bleaches is extremely low. The bleach breaks-down almost immediately when in the environment: http://ec.europa.eu/heal...her/docs/scher_o_082.pdf
johnmurray  
#14 Posted : 17 April 2015 18:14:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

Oh....chlorine is also released when sodium hypochlorite bleach is in contact with urine. Don't pee into the bleach treated urinal/toilet!
Ron Hunter  
#15 Posted : 20 April 2015 10:43:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

JohnMurray wrote:
Environmental risks attached to waste products of sodium hypochlorite bleaches is extremely low. The bleach breaks-down almost immediately when in the environment: http://ec.europa.eu/heal...her/docs/scher_o_082.pdf
Is that the whole story though? Isn't the reaction process in the marine environment a bit more complicated than that?
Graham Bullough  
#16 Posted : 20 April 2015 13:31:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

Along with earlier responders I agree that bleach is acceptable as an inexpensive general purpose disinfectant provided that users are suitably informed and equipped to use it safely and properly. This includes appropriate dilution ratios! Many years ago I was told about a case of a school caretaker who was using significantly more bleach than his counterparts in other schools. The education authority's caretaking supervisor/client officer investigated and found that the caretaker was using a double strength ratio of bleach as he misperceived that this would enable him to clean/disinfect twice as well as with the recommended ratio. In fact, the double ratio gave no advantage and involved the purchase and use of more bleach than necessary. The caretaker was duly advised and checks were made to ensure that other caretakers understood and used the recommended ratio. As such checks also revealed that a few caretakers were using their own money to buy replacement protective gloves, their schools were left in no doubt that the cost of PPE for all employees should come out of school budgets! JohnMurray's comment about urine at #14 reminds me of (and also partially explains) a significant issue with boys' toilets in my former employer's schools. Most had old sectional ceramic trough urinals and tended to be unpleasantly smelly. This was apparently because the grouting between the sections had become porous with age and presumably absorbed urine. Therefore, caretakers and cleaners tended to try and clean/disinfect such urinals on a frequent basis. However, as this strategy wasn't very effective, we developed a campaign to try and persuade schools with old ceramic trough urinals to replace them with wall-mounted stainless steel troughs or single ceramic units. The campaign received a boost from teachers and health education people after discovering that some boys in primary schools deliberately tried to avoid drinking anything during the school day because they hated having to visit and use smelly toilets. As a result, a significant number of schools did change their urinals and found it very worthwhile. Boys with a previously understandable aversion to using smelly facilities no longer shunned fluids while at school - all the better for their personal health and comfort. Caretakers and cleaners were also happy because they needed to spend less time and effort trying to clean and disinfect boys' toilets. Also they needed notably less bleach or other cleaning agents, especially where (as in most cases) the improvements also included the replacement or covering of old ceramic tiled floors with suitable non-slip heavy duty vinyl flooring. Also schools which had devices to dispense smell-masking aromas in boys' toilets tended to find they were no longer needed. The campaign was admittedly low-profile and un-prestigious compared with various other issues but ultimately it was quite satisfying in view of the difference it made for pupils and school staff. Therefore, where appropriate, I hope this information may be of use for forum users, whether as OSH advisers working with schools or parents/grandparents of children at school. p.s. As a general aside it's best not to under-estimate school caretakers: In my experience most tend to be dedicated people who work long hours, often unseen and undervalued, for low pay. Most of the ones at my former employer's schools had prior experience of other types of work, including ex-engineers and fitters made redundant when a local aircraft factory downsized. Also, some schools try to recognise the value of their caretakers by re-designating them as site supervisors.
johnmurray  
#17 Posted : 21 April 2015 10:02:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

Ron Hunter wrote:
JohnMurray wrote:
Environmental risks attached to waste products of sodium hypochlorite bleaches is extremely low. The bleach breaks-down almost immediately when in the environment: http://ec.europa.eu/heal...her/docs/scher_o_082.pdf
Is that the whole story though? Isn't the reaction process in the marine environment a bit more complicated than that?
Probably. But very little untreated sewage is released into the marine environment. And with EU legal action, less in future. And sodium hypochlorite-based bleach breaks down very rapidly into sodium chloride/chlorate.
Safe Hanz  
#18 Posted : 21 April 2015 11:51:37(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Safe Hanz

Using any hierarchy of control would suggest replacing any "harmful" chemical with something less harmful. Maybe this is where the suggestion to ban it (NaClO) has come from
A Kurdziel  
#19 Posted : 21 April 2015 12:23:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

There seems to be a great deal of ignorance when it comes to COSHH, not just the mechanics of the legislation itself but a lack of basic scientific understanding. This leads to people making generalisations and I am guessing here, copying other peoples risk assessments rather than doing their own. So someone did an RA and decided that bleach (sodium hypochlorite solution) was not for them in the particular set of circumstances where they are working. Fair enough, then other people, rather than looking at the fundamentals, simply copied this RA and so it became established that bleach was banned. These people will ban bleach but are perfectly happy to allow operatives to use drain unblocking solution based on concentrated sulphuric acid. As I said down a lack of basic understanding (O level chemistry)
Jerry1  
#20 Posted : 16 June 2020 19:40:21(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Jerry1

I've read this thread with interest and trepidation.  I am a high school biology teacher and department chair in a small private school that disallows the use of bleach by custodial staff, though we have always used it in biology as a dissinfectant for microbiology labs and animal cages. This week, both bottles disappeared from my lab with no one confessing the crime.  I'm not sure why I'm writing y'all, unless any one has had a similar dealing or advice on how to proceed.

Roundtuit  
#21 Posted : 16 June 2020 20:09:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

not sure what you are expecting from resurrecting this ancient post - theft of chemicals comes down to how you control them in the first place e.g. locked cupboards or rooms. Your language chair, dissallows, custodial, y'all indicates possible overseas location - any fervent Trump followers on campus?
thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Connor35037 on 17/06/2020(UTC), Connor35037 on 17/06/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#22 Posted : 16 June 2020 20:09:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

not sure what you are expecting from resurrecting this ancient post - theft of chemicals comes down to how you control them in the first place e.g. locked cupboards or rooms. Your language chair, dissallows, custodial, y'all indicates possible overseas location - any fervent Trump followers on campus?
thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Connor35037 on 17/06/2020(UTC), Connor35037 on 17/06/2020(UTC)
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