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Azza  
#1 Posted : 29 April 2016 13:22:39(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Azza

Hi,

Its my understanding hi vis jackets should be worn properly fastened.

Im being challenged by Senior managers who believe there is no need to have hi vis jackets "done up".

Can people support with any suggestions to justify wearing the PPE correctly.
imponderabilius  
#2 Posted : 29 April 2016 14:05:35(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
imponderabilius

To me it's common sense - the velcro is there for a reason. If you have a jacket under the vest and both are undone, the vest might be invisible from behind the jacket if it rolls out, etc. You don't need regulations to tell you that your shoes should be done up...
Besides, tell your senior management it's part of company's image, just like undone coveralls hanging at the waist, painted hard hats, old and dirty boots, dirty cars and messy workshop.
Senior management are the ones who should be especially interested in good image of the company so, in my opinion, it's very unsettling that they do not understand that.
WatsonD  
#3 Posted : 29 April 2016 14:06:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

I have to say I am with your managers. As long as they are kept clean and therefore still 'highly-visible'.

What is the risk if their jackets are left undone?

If you can't think of any reason why they should wear the hi-vis jackets "done up", then I can't see why it is an issue. And what you hope to gain, other than alienating the H&S function from the rest of the company.
imponderabilius  
#4 Posted : 29 April 2016 14:17:20(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
imponderabilius

WatsonD wrote:
I have to say I am with your managers. As long as they are kept clean and therefore still 'highly-visible'.

What is the risk if their jackets are left undone?

If you can't think of any reason why they should wear the hi-vis jackets "done up", then I can't see why it is an issue. And what you hope to gain, other than alienating the H&S function from the rest of the company.


It depends on the environment - do they work nightshifts? is there vehicular traffic? do they work outdoors? is there a record of incidents involving individuals' visibility?
Obviously, if someone's wearing a high viz only to indicate that he's an employee in a public space, it can be undone. However, if poor visibility is a hazard, appropriate measures must be taken, including maximizing visibility (i.e. fastening the vest to increase the size of visible reflective surface).
Invictus  
#5 Posted : 29 April 2016 14:18:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

If you are that bothered you could always get it written into the risk assessment and part of the Method statement etc and then quote Section 7 of the Health and Safety at work act. Job Done1

Personally sometimes we get something in our heads and run withy it without thinking about how it will be enfirced, what are the consequences for not doing it and if in the long run it keeps the wearer safer having it fastened.

Also what industry do you work in as that might make a difference to the answers you receive.
Lawlee45239  
#6 Posted : 29 April 2016 14:31:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Lawlee45239

Azza wrote:
Hi,

Its my understanding hi vis jackets should be worn properly fastened.

Im being challenged by Senior managers who believe there is no need to have hi vis jackets "done up".

Can people support with any suggestions to justify wearing the PPE correctly.



Depends if you need 360 coverage, come areas do request such. Check what you industry requirements are.
Mr.Flibble2.0  
#7 Posted : 29 April 2016 14:43:07(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Mr.Flibble2.0

When we had this issue I took a photo of someone standing in the yard at night with the high-vis undone and one with it fastened. I put the too side by side with the caption 'Now you see me, now you don't'.
Azza  
#8 Posted : 29 April 2016 14:55:52(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Azza

Thanks everyone.
chris42  
#9 Posted : 29 April 2016 15:01:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

quote=Azza]Hi,

Its my understanding hi vis jackets should be worn properly fastened.

Im being challenged by Senior managers who believe there is no need to have hi vis jackets "done up".

Can people support with any suggestions to justify wearing the PPE correctly.


Yes

If your risk assessment has confirmed that for the activity they are doing a particular class of high Visibility clothing is required, then the clothing would need to be done up in order to meet the standard. ie for class 2 it specifies the number of bands of retroreflective material. It also specifies a particular area of Fluorescent material >0.13 m2 and Retroreflective material >0.13 m2. Therefore if they are not done up they will be unlikely to meet the standard specified by your risk assessment when being viewed from the front.

What your Risk assessment specifies as the others have said is all dependant on what you (they) are actually doing. There is little point in buying it and wearing it, if it cannot be seen properly. If of course it is more a fashion statement, then it probably does not matter.

Chris

gerrysharpe  
#10 Posted : 02 May 2016 08:01:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
gerrysharpe

I found myself with this argument a few years back, when i see people with jackets opened, However we need to remember that High vis is mainly for protection at night and low light conditions, the high vis is there to reflect light thats available be it Car head lights, Street Lighting etc, Those are the areas that need to ensure that the high vis complies.

During the day the colour comes into play and your aware of a big clump of Fluorescent Yellow or Orange, Although the stripes are there,your first instinct is to see the colour not the Fluorescent Stripe. This is also true from a distance you see the colour first before the stripes.

I'm assuming you need to use your judgement and make an informed choice as to allowing a jacket to be opened in the midday sun or the wearing of a jacket in low light conditions.

Some employment stipulate that jackets must be done up completely ie, Rail Workers, Vehicle Recovery, Airside workers at airports. However if your PPE policy does not then you need to get it included to prevent arguments later.

The argument of wearing HI Vis properly will forever continue, The majority of the work i do is on construction sites and over the Past 5 years I've seen some poor practices such as taking another companies printed Hi Vis and turning it inside out so you don't see the name, unfortunately you don't see the stripes neither, In those instances the worker was sent home for not having the correct PPE.
sadlass  
#11 Posted : 02 May 2016 10:59:10(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
sadlass

Sorry to be pedantic - but . .

Hi vis is a generic term for clothing which is of a flourescent 'hi visibility' colour (yellow, pink, orange) and 'reflective' is the grey / silver looking stripes.
There are different classes, (specification) depending on where the work is (rail, road etc.). The block of colour is for daylight visibility and the reflective is for dark conditions where any light source picks these up.

Everyone and their dog (literally) now wears 'hi vis' so clarity is usually required (via assessment) as to what the purpose (and specification) of any work hi-vis actually is.

The organisation has to agree standards. Corporate image is not H&S, but your input to standards is critical. And it needs to be justifiable to your reluctant managers. If you can't justify, stay out of it.
Mac an t-Sronaich-  
#12 Posted : 02 May 2016 20:10:06(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Mac an t-Sronaich-

Hi Vis, coveralls, jackets should all be fastened closed.
RayRapp  
#13 Posted : 02 May 2016 20:57:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

I would question whether a hi-vis tabard/vest is needed at all. They are often worn for no good reason. If hi-vis is required then you could consider a hi-vis polo shirt, more comfortable especially in hot weather and no issues about being done up.

As for tabards/vests if they come with a fastener then they should worn as they were designed in my opinion.
paul.skyrme  
#14 Posted : 02 May 2016 22:46:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

Does "suitable & sufficient" not come into this then?

That would include more, much more than the visibility aspect.
peter gotch  
#15 Posted : 01 August 2022 15:12:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

007 - assume you have changed your name from James Bond?

Since I don't open potentially internet insecure links I am wondering what currency "under 100" might be. US dollars, ££ sterling, euros, rupees or "and now for something completely different".

By the way I suggest you read the Forum Rules (LINK at the top of the page). Unsolicited advertising is banned.

...and the original posting, 6 years ago, was nowt to do with where to buy clothing but how to use it.

thanks 1 user thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 02/08/2022(UTC)
achrn  
#16 Posted : 02 August 2022 13:12:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

Well, the good news is that it looks like someone has taken action over a spam post.

The bad news is that teh silent deletion makes Peter look like a raving lunatic!

thanks 3 users thanked achrn for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 02/08/2022(UTC), peter gotch on 02/08/2022(UTC), Brian Hagyard on 03/08/2022(UTC)
Brian Hagyard  
#17 Posted : 03 August 2022 06:52:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Brian Hagyard

Originally Posted by: achrn Go to Quoted Post

The bad news is that teh silent deletion makes Peter look like a raving lunatic!

Was that ever in question? Sorry have been corrisponding with Peter outside the forum on some other maters - but i did notice i was corrupting him. Not sure  "Nowt" is a Scottish phrase - more like my Yorkshire to me - eh up lad there will be trouble at mill!

thanks 1 user thanked Brian Hagyard for this useful post.
peter gotch on 03/08/2022(UTC)
peter gotch  
#18 Posted : 03 August 2022 10:33:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Must check when the next full moon is.

Brian - I've got roots from all sorts of places. Not sure about Yorkshire but there was a surgeon in Lincolnshire in my lineage.

Good to see that the "Moderator" has been at work (if not clearing up related postings) - they have now got "Amanda" with three ads this morning to sort out.

thanks 1 user thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
Brian Hagyard on 03/08/2022(UTC)
antbruce001  
#19 Posted : 03 August 2022 12:37:04(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
antbruce001

Just to be perdantic; HI-Vis is not PPE. We treat it like PPE, but technically it doesn't protect. FLTs and other vehicles dont bounce off it and it doesn't lessen the injury. In the ERICPD hierarchy (the best one by far!) its a discipline control. (Lets not restart that debate :) )

With the amount of use of Hi-vis, during normal lighting conditons you are more likley to spot someone without Hi-vis more than someone wearing it! We a hard wired to stop the difference - not the common.

Roundtuit  
#20 Posted : 03 August 2022 12:46:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: antbruce001 Go to Quoted Post
Just to be perdantic; HI-Vis is not PPE.

https://www.hse.gov.uk/ppe/ppe-regulations-2022.htm#what-ppe-is

PPE is defined in the PPER 1992 as ‘all equipment (including clothing affording protection against the weather) which is intended to be worn or held by a person at work and which protects the person against one or more risks to that person’s health or safety, and any addition or accessory designed to meet that objective’.

So not required to bounce Fork Lift Trucks but does make the compo claim much more robust.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Brian Hagyard on 03/08/2022(UTC), Brian Hagyard on 03/08/2022(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#21 Posted : 03 August 2022 12:46:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: antbruce001 Go to Quoted Post
Just to be perdantic; HI-Vis is not PPE.

https://www.hse.gov.uk/ppe/ppe-regulations-2022.htm#what-ppe-is

PPE is defined in the PPER 1992 as ‘all equipment (including clothing affording protection against the weather) which is intended to be worn or held by a person at work and which protects the person against one or more risks to that person’s health or safety, and any addition or accessory designed to meet that objective’.

So not required to bounce Fork Lift Trucks but does make the compo claim much more robust.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Brian Hagyard on 03/08/2022(UTC), Brian Hagyard on 03/08/2022(UTC)
Brian Hagyard  
#22 Posted : 03 August 2022 14:55:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Brian Hagyard

Taken from the HSE web site on maintaining PPE

The effectiveness of some types of PPE, particularly clothing, will be significantly reduced if they are not kept clean. Hi-vis jackets, trousers and coveralls must be cleaned regularly to ensure the retroreflective strips continue to be easily identifiable

So no lets not start that debate

Edited by user 03 August 2022 14:56:09(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Kate  
#23 Posted : 03 August 2022 18:21:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

I was pretty surprised to learn that even something like a gas monitor which you wear or carry is classed as PPE.  But apparently so.

martinbrogan  
#24 Posted : 04 August 2022 04:49:15(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
martinbrogan

In case I have missed it in the comments - Question, why are the senior managers saying no need to fasten? We use various vests and due to extreme heat conditons some cause exessive sweating when worn closed so we opted for a more suitable vented style that staff like. So question to management - Why do they not want to wear them closed, are they unsuitable, are they put on and off for short periods, maybe look at reflective material actually on the staff uniforms if applicable and no need for  the vest at all. Just my view.

Roundtuit  
#25 Posted : 04 August 2022 10:14:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

The OP has probably long since moved on from the management in question but in response:

1) The company has identified a risk requiring control

2) One of the controls chosen is adoption of Hi-Vis garments to a particular class & standard

3) The manufacturer will have designed their garment to satisfy the requirements for class and standard - colour, area, reflective content - given these are "essential requirements" under the conformity assessment to apply CE or UKCA marking

4) Having chosen a solution the MANAGEMENT are required to ensure that equipment provided in pursuit of Health & Safety is operated and mantained in accordance with supplier instruction.

From personal experience I am yet to open any Hi-Vis bib/vest/coat where the manufacturer provides options on how it may be worn whilst remaining compliant the fasteners (velcro, zip, poppers, buttons) being present merely to aid donning and doffing of the garment.

Roundtuit  
#26 Posted : 04 August 2022 10:14:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

The OP has probably long since moved on from the management in question but in response:

1) The company has identified a risk requiring control

2) One of the controls chosen is adoption of Hi-Vis garments to a particular class & standard

3) The manufacturer will have designed their garment to satisfy the requirements for class and standard - colour, area, reflective content - given these are "essential requirements" under the conformity assessment to apply CE or UKCA marking

4) Having chosen a solution the MANAGEMENT are required to ensure that equipment provided in pursuit of Health & Safety is operated and mantained in accordance with supplier instruction.

From personal experience I am yet to open any Hi-Vis bib/vest/coat where the manufacturer provides options on how it may be worn whilst remaining compliant the fasteners (velcro, zip, poppers, buttons) being present merely to aid donning and doffing of the garment.

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