Hi all,

I have been receiving CVs for a SHEQ advisor role and in the main the people applying are holding a nebosh general or construction cert.

Now I know qualifications aren't everything and experience also plays a key part.

I always thought that as a professional HS person holding NEBOSH diploma or equivalent qualification would be a minimum when applying for a professional SHEQ role.

I just wanted to know what the thoughts are on this and maybe this is the way the job market currently stands.

(Also i am not knocking anyone who holds SHEQ / HS role with a cert   - i just want to see what everyones thoughts are so i know how to progress with finding the right person)

Thanks

Is what you are willing to pay narrowing the field ?

NEBOSH is only one route to professional recognition in the H&S field, there are many others. Most Employers when advertising for a role in H&S have no idea what NEBOSH or CMIOSH actually means.

If you want only those with a diploma, then your advert should stipulate this is what you are looking for. However, those with a diploma will have higher salary expectations along with a more substantial role within the organisation too. If its a smaller role and in a smaller organisation along with a modest salary those with certificate level qualifications will be encouraged to apply. And if so then why not consider them? I am a SEHQ Manager with only a general cert.

I'd really appreciate some ingformation the differences between 'officer' , 'advisor', 'coordinator' and 'manager' as none of the recruiters or employyers I've dealt with seem to know if there is a difference between them

The H&S profession hasn't done itself any favours over the years - IOSH Managing Safely / NEBOSH General Certificate etc confusion, for example - some other professions are much more focussed on what constitutes suitable knowledge and / or experience to carry out roles.

pseudonym

You make a good point about professional "structure", but in truth, are we really a "profession" in the strictest sense ?  How many companies actually treat their Health and Safety team in the same way as their Legal Services team, their Accountants or their Occ Health providers (they being bona fide medical professionals) ?  In my personal experience, not a lot.  Too many organisations only employ someone in H&S either to blame when something goes wrong, or because they (wrongly) assume that doing so absolves those at the top of responsibility.  Of course there are exceptions, but arguably they are few and far between unfortunately.  Health and Safety still has an image problem, and I'm not sure enough is being done to rid ourselves of the "fun police" tag.   Sadly, I think we're still a long way away from being recognised as a "proper" profession...

Originally Posted by: bxuxa

Is not empiric that Diploma means an excellent professional, is only an academic level.

If looking for an Advisor, a bigger importance should be given to the capacity of resilience.

Rdot, are you aware of the differences between advisor, officer, manager, co-ordinator?

I work for a charity dealing with homeless people, we have approx 40 properties from supported housing, night shelters, bike workshops and office spaces. Spread from Basingstoke in the East to Exeter in the South.

My title is Co-ordinator, which I feel is wrong and my position has been given this title as a cost cutting measure.

I am the sole person in the H&S team. And answer directly to the Chief Exec

I agree about qualifications and position. When I started 3 yrs ago my handover notes were very brief. Gave a list of my job and the reports I have to produce and when. The final parting statement at the end was

If you don't know the answer then Google it.

Turned out she had no H&S quals and conducted H&S from her desk and visited each property once ayear. Where as I'm never in the office, always out on the road visiting the teams and sorting their issues out at the coal face. I think I now have a good relationship with coalface workers and they are happy to ask for help.

I only have the Gen Cert, toying with the NVQ Lvl 5 route but unsure currently

"IOSH is the Chartered body for health and safety professionals

Returning to the job titles, yes there is a "theoretic" difference.

As examples, an HS Officer in the true sense should have the power to enforce, when the advisor, just advice according to ACOPs etc.

Well, for the title Safety Director I am get confused once, they called Director but is not on appointed as such on the company house.

Rdot – On a different slant. As a person who delivers NEBOSH training courses, you would be surprised at the number of people who pass the course and think they are now safety professionals and can jump into a safety Managers/Officers etc. Job.

Originally Posted by: Rdot

Hi all,

I have been receiving CVs for a SHEQ advisor role and in the main the people applying are holding a nebosh general or construction cert.

Now I know qualifications aren't everything and experience also plays a key part.

I always thought that as a professional HS person holding NEBOSH diploma or equivalent qualification would be a minimum when applying for a professional SHEQ role.

I just wanted to know what the thoughts are on this and maybe this is the way the job market currently stands.

(Also i am not knocking anyone who holds SHEQ / HS role with a cert   - i just want to see what everyones thoughts are so i know how to progress with finding the right person)

Thanks

What idustry are you recruiting in? and what pay was advertised/or not advertised?

Did you state a qualification level?

An experience level?

If no then how would you ever expect someone to know. You see a lot of job descriptions with "membership to IOSH is desirable" , which is an acceptable statement but could be improved if recruiters looked into what membership level would best suit their clients needs. 

There are advisor roles out there which are stated as "entry level" and then you see advisor roles which are clearly more senior roles. Titles within H&S are extremely confusing, there are numerous titles you can have but there is no given structure e.g. assistance -  junior advisor - advisor - officer etc.

I found it amazing reading these post as a CMIOSH member currently offshore in a high risk area I have applied for many jobs on-shore to be told I was not suitable due to my background.

I find this strange given I am highly qualified and sit on the offshore IOSH group as a committee member and there are managers onshore  with nebosh general or less .

I dont know if its the fact the person interviewing is less qualified and is wary of me.

Hmmm.... Well, to be honest, I am sick and tired coming across so called HSE professionals in supervisory and management roles who have no formal or recognised qualifications and are not members of a recognised professional body.

It makes me wonder why I wasted tens of thosands of pounds and sleepless nights studying over the last 19 years to become a CMIOSH whilst working full time in various H&S roles across the globe.

It would appear that anyone can simly "have a go" at Health & Safety regardless of their background, education, experience or qualification.....

Edited by user 19 January 2019 10:08:50(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Its a long thread and the recurring theme is that qualfications nor memberships are a defining part of many H&S roles.  Significant sized companies can have quite rudamentary needs whilst a small specialist provider may be hugely technical needs in theirs. And for that reason I can easily se how a manager may be "over" qualified for one and yet under qualified for the other.  Simialarly, many threads here talk about using the people doing the job to be involved in the H&S process - there can cme a stage when that is equally if not more important in defining a good person to fila role than a qualification  or membership.
In recruiting terms, the recruiter may be the problem rather than the potential employer.  Asa potnetial employee isn't the most important part bit being where the person is capable, competent and has the right overall package to satisfy the known and expected job role - at times that may be pushing the bounds of a CMIOSH and over the top with having had a familiarisation course (Exaggerated example).
 

Edited by user 19 January 2019 19:41:42(UTC)  | Reason: ontext

Having looked at numerous jobs over recent weeks that are appearing on the job websites, then the majority are only asking for the Nebosh Certificate.  I can only assume that the lack of candidates with the diploma is down to the fact that the cost of the course has made it prohibitive.  When you are potentially looking at £9k for the course, I can see why that would be a problem.

I am lucky in that I did the NTU ProDipSHEM course just before the price doubled to £9k and the course was scrapped.

Still what companies are asking for warrants a whole team never mind one person.

Hopefully you managed to find the right candidate.

I have been doing safety for 20 years and I only have the General and Construction Certs, I'm not a member of IOSH and currently in the role of Regional SHE Manager.

At a recent job interview for a more senior role I mentioned that I was undertaking the Level 6 Diploma and got asked 'why, you haven't needed it so far and will it make you a better Safety Manager'.

My honest answer was no it won't make me a better Safety Manager, but I need it on my CV when I apply for Senior Roles.

I can’t quote Legislation chapter and verse, but then I don’t need to. I know the intent of Legislation and how that translates to the workplace and if I don’t I know where to get that information from.

Qualifications in our industry are not the be all to end all and they give you a fantastic understanding of the subject if you are new or want to know more, and sometimes specific qualifications and advanced knowledge are required for more hazardous working environments. Hats off to everyone who has.

We get far to hung up on what qualifications we all have or what someone should have to do our roles. Having a qualification is a portion of what makes a Safety Manager (or whatever we are called) and there is still a bit of snobbery that goes on around who has what (so many threads arguing between what’s better NEBOSH or NCRQ). I have worked with Managers who have a higher qualification than me, who did not have a clue and I am sure I’m not the only one.

It doesn’t matter what qualifications you or anyone else has as long as your goal is to keep everyone safe and the company legally compliant, which if you do one right the other will fall into place.

As jwk has said, sector based knowledge is very important: you need to know how the job works and equally importantly you need to know how the people in that sector function and what is the best way to get them onside. Qualifications like the Diploma (other possibly, better qualifications are available) are useful in that they give you an insight into the wider H&S picture. So for example when it comes to construction how many H&S construction specialists really understand chemical risks and do a proper COSHH risk assessment? Similarly a good general H&S qualification will give you a handle on things like human factors, accident causation which are things that you won’t necessarily pick up ‘on the job’.

Most importantly a good H&S qualification should clearly define the limits of your knowledge and tell you when you need to ask for more specialist help.