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Monopoly  
#1 Posted : 30 April 2019 13:44:55(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Monopoly

On a school visit to a sporting venue one of the teachers accompanying the children took part in a sporting activity. She tripped and broke her leg.

If the investigation finds that the break should be reported as a RIDDOR does the sporting venue or the school have to notify?

If it is a RIDDOR does the school also have to report if the teacher is absent from work for more than 7 days?

Thanks

CptBeaky  
#2 Posted : 30 April 2019 13:57:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

Straight from HSE - School activities section in RIDDOR

Q. Are sporting injuries reportable?

A. No, most are not, since they arise out of the normal participation in a sporting activity (eg a heavy tackle in football). Only report injuries if they arise out of or in connection with a work activity, such as those due to defective equipment or failings in the organisation and management of an event.

Monopoly  
#3 Posted : 30 April 2019 14:06:46(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Monopoly

So, if the teacher is off for more than 7 consecitive days as a result of the injury it's still not reportable?

Xavier123  
#4 Posted : 30 April 2019 14:47:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Xavier123

I'm not sure I understand the second part of your original question - if its reportable, do we have to report? Something lost in typing!

However, the test about work related reportability is described above. But you need to first decide whether this was a work activity before you examine whether the accident was work-related. Were they required (explicitly or implicitly) to take part or was it a personal choice. That sets you down a route of whether they were an employee at that time or not - although if they were supervising children etc. at the time then may I suggest that declaring them 'not an employee' is fraught with a bunch of other questions... ;) PE teachers have some at least vague involvement with sporting activity and I would suggest that this is a rather inherent part of their day to day work! I've always assumed that the quote above is targeted at students.

Functionally though, if they are an employee, then the employer is the dutyholder for RIDDOR. But if you determine they were, for the purposes of this activity, a member of the public, then the venue is.

The injury however is but the outcome of an accident - it is not the accident itself.  You need to examine the accident and decide if there were any defects in equipment, environment or management that contributed to it. If so, then likely work-related and the appropriate organisation as per the above should report.

thanks 1 user thanked Xavier123 for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 01/05/2019(UTC)
Clark34486  
#5 Posted : 30 April 2019 15:12:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clark34486

This will cause all sorts of raging opinions but for me this isn't reportable, if it were you'd be reporting the break not the lost time anyway

Monopoly  
#6 Posted : 30 April 2019 15:13:17(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Monopoly

So...

If it was found that the incident wasn't initially RIDDOR reportable because it's a sporting injury and there were no defects, adequate supervision etc. would it then become RIDDOR if the teacher was away from work for more than 7 consecutive days?

Elfin Davy 09  
#7 Posted : 30 April 2019 15:19:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Elfin Davy 09

No, because an over 7 day RIDDOR report is still only required if the accident itself warrants a RIDDOR report. 

Edited by user 30 April 2019 15:22:00(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Monopoly  
#8 Posted : 30 April 2019 15:26:51(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Monopoly

Not sure if that's true. If an employee trips over a trailing cable at work and twsits their ankle, this is in itself not a specified injury and so is not RIDDOR reportable. However, if the employee is off work for more than 7 consecutive days as a result then it becomes reportable.

Elfin Davy 09  
#9 Posted : 30 April 2019 15:28:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Elfin Davy 09

Yes, that's correct, because the circumstances of the accident make it reportable after 7 days.

Your sporting incident (from what you've told us) doesn't appear to meet the "work related" aspect of RIDDOR reporting, whereas the tripping incident you've described above does...

Edited by user 30 April 2019 15:36:08(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

nic168  
#10 Posted : 01 May 2019 10:11:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
nic168

Education information leaflet no 1 on HSE website deals with RIDDOR. As this was a teacher acting in their normal capacity thi is probably reportable.
A Kurdziel  
#11 Posted : 01 May 2019 12:32:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

From my reading of the original post the injured party was undertaking an activity on behalf of their employer at another employer’s premises. There they suffered a significant injury which I assume lead to them being taken straight to hospital (do not pass go do not collect £200 but do get actual treatment as opposed to just an assessment). So it is a RIDDOR but it is down to the venue to report it.  

peterL  
#12 Posted : 01 May 2019 12:44:18(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
peterL

The test here on whether its reportable or not is whether the I.P. was directed by the school to facilitate / take part in the sporting activity - if they were it meets the criteria of work related and therefore it's reportable, but if they were not directed and they acted on their own volition then its not reportable to RIDDOR.

Edited by user 01 May 2019 12:45:30(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 1 user thanked peterL for this useful post.
Elfin Davy 09 on 01/05/2019(UTC)
CptBeaky  
#13 Posted : 01 May 2019 13:16:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

If in doubt there is no harm in reporting. It is probably better to over report than under report. Someone once said that if we all over report then maybe the HSE would get their act together and make RIDDOR clearer to follow.

thanks 1 user thanked CptBeaky for this useful post.
SJP on 01/05/2019(UTC)
chris42  
#14 Posted : 01 May 2019 13:58:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

I think most of it is as above, but needs putting together. Ie

  1. Was it work related? Ie firstly, were they asked / expected to take part or did they just join in for a bit of fun?
  2. If they were told to take part then it might be work related, so the next question is was the way it was organised / carried out play a part, or did any equipment or anything provided play a part, and lastly did the condition of the premises play a part? If any of it did then it is reportable by the employer and if it didn’t then it is not reportable.
  3. If they were not told to take part, did the way the event was organised or the premises play a part, if so, then as a member of the public the sporting event company should report. If not then no report, by anyone.

Remember when asking yourself the above questions is not with regard to blame just did it play a part and contribute to the incident.

 

chris

thanks 2 users thanked chris42 for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 01/05/2019(UTC), Elfin Davy 09 on 01/05/2019(UTC)
Monopoly  
#15 Posted : 10 May 2019 09:23:58(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Monopoly

Thanks for all the responses and advice

Hsquared14  
#16 Posted : 10 May 2019 12:09:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Hsquared14

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post

From my reading of the original post the injured party was undertaking an activity on behalf of their employer at another employer’s premises. There they suffered a significant injury which I assume lead to them being taken straight to hospital (do not pass go do not collect £200 but do get actual treatment as opposed to just an assessment). So it is a RIDDOR but it is down to the venue to report it.  

This is my understanding too - in this case it is down to the venue to report not the employer.  Similar analogy is that some recent cases of broken bones at those trampolining places were RIDDOR reportable by the venue and the HSE made some investigations.  Effectively at an off site venue the teacher is classed as a member of the public so becomes the venue's responsibility so as a specified injury in the regs and needing hospital treatment rather than just investigation it is down to them to report. 

Xavier123  
#17 Posted : 13 May 2019 08:02:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Xavier123

Always go back to the law when discussing legal requirements.

You are either an employee, member of public or self-employed at time of incident. That determines who reports. Your employee at someone else's premises remains your employee unless, as I pointed out earlier, you conclude they were not partaking in a work activity.

Responsible person

3.—(1) In these Regulations, the “responsible person” is—

(a)in relation to an injury, death or dangerous occurrence reportable under regulation 4, 5, 6 or 7 or recordable under regulation 12(1)(b) involving—

(i)an employee, that employee’s employer; or

(ii)a person not at work or a self-employed person, or in relation to any other dangerous occurrence, the person who by means of their carrying on any undertaking was in control of the premises where the reportable or recordable incident happened, at the time it happened;

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