Rank: Forum user 
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Might sound a silly question but we have 2 'operators' for an item of plant (road sweeper) where during their induction were asked if they had any relevant training certification. At this time both said no. Subsequently knowing they were both experienced we arranged for them to be assessed by an external instructor from the supplier. It then transpires on the day that both of the employees actually hold a 'train the trainer' certification carried out at their previous employer.
My question is, as they hold and were now able to produce a certificate saying 'train the trainer' does that legitimately make them a competent 'operator'? If I present this to a client would/should they accept this as evidence of them being competent operators?
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Rank: Super forum user
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The only person who can decide if person is ‘competent’ is the employer. All a certificate establishes is that the person attended a course and they may have had a test and passed that test. This does not mean that they are competent to carry out a particular role. I am surprised that they got to the point of actually going on a course without telling anyone that they had a train the trainer qualification. Don’t you have records of employee’s qualifications?
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Rank: Forum user
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A Kurdziel. Thanks for the reply but i'm guessing you don't work in the construction industry, where an employer stating they are competent is very rarely accepted these days, particularly in relation to plant. I fully understand the point you are stating about deeming competency but construction site managers always want CPCS, NPORS, IPAF etc or some other industry/nationally recognised accreditation. The guys had done the course 2 years prior but for some strange reason didnt realise it was actually an instructors course they had done but when the senior instructor arrived on the day he recognised them both. Had similar occassions in the past when we put guys on a training course for them to suddenly remember the course was something they did a year ago before they started with us. Kind of worrying that they don't remember these things!
In answer to your final point. Yes, I do hold substantial employee training records but this particular certificate was issued by the supplier of the item of plant and as such would not come up during standard sweeps via CSCs, NPORS etc.
I've asked the "training" company if they would now issue a separate certificate for the guys as 'operators' to match our other guys so will wait and see if they respond.
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 1 user thanked kevinmuir for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Just because you are competent at one point in time does not
mean you are competent forever! I’m registered as a trainer with several
organisations, and they all ask me from time to time what PD I have undertaken.
In some cases, I have to attend compulsory updates. If your chaps don't even
remember doing the train the trainer course, I’m afraid I would be asking a few
questions about what else they had forgotten and were they still competent.
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1 user thanked HSSnail for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user
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If they can’t remember the course there must a) can’t really be competent, cos if they were they’d remember the course b) was there something wrong with the course which meant didn’t sink in, or was the certificate for attendance only
PS Of course I know nothing of construction and how it works in reality but a lack of knowledge has never stopped anyone on this forum before!
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1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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There are scenarios where someone could be competent to provide training in a task, but not to do the task. For example, if successful completion of the task requires a level of dexterity or strength or other ability which the the trainer can explain and assess, but does not have themselves.
So it all depends on whether the instructor course included training and assessment in the task itself, or alternatively had competence in the task as a prerequsite, or only covered how to train it.
Since your operators don't appear to remember the training, this may be difficult to establish.
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Rank: Forum user
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Personally i do not regard being a qualified trainer shows competance in all situations. I have done an instructors course a few years back. I do not feel competant because of it. The course was IT based only and never touched on any ommunication skills or practical training scenarios.
I can and do train but only in areas i am experienced in.
Mike
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Rank: Super forum user 
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My FLT trainer has just done a refresher course for his trainer's certificate and assessment of his competence to operate the equipment is carried out as part of the overall refresher / re-certifcation course. In that context then I would say yes the trainer's certificate does imply a level of competence. BUT it very much depends on whether the course assesses the competence of the trainer to operate the equipment - you could try asking that question of the organisation that delivered the train the trainer course.
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