I would always go with an Asbestos R&D Survey in all such works as it is simply the best course of positive planning.

Domestic properties should not be regarded as different. 

Thank you both for your input on this, my MD is unlikley to pay for his own survey and the client does not have one, my original question is can we start work without one?

I have asked for one but I may not get one which is why I am asking can we legally start work without one?

Centurion - Thanks

The problem with that article is that its not fully correct, it does quote the wording from CAR 2012 about duty holders and the need to assess materials but CAR 2012 only applies to non-domestic proerties and common areas of domestic properties.

Thats my main issue, if CAR 2012 applied in this instance I could force client to get an R&D survey but unfortunatly CAR 2012 doesnt apply in this instance therefore Im kinda stuck, the only thing I have is our duties under HASAW 

The problem with CAR 2012 is that it concerns non-domestic properties (Reg 4.) however, there is overlapping legislation which will apply e.g. HSWA s2&3 and CDM 2015 (Reg 11).

Why CAR only included non-domestic properties is a mystery, but clearly it is inadequate especially since domestic projects are now included in CDM and CAR needs to be amended.

The choices are simple, ask the PD for asbestos related information. If none provided, you continue at your own risk or pay for a R&D survey and charge it to the client, assuming they will pay for it of course.   

Robert, a R&D survey for a limited area should cost no more than £200-300. A relatively small cost for some peace of mind.

I don't normally post here, however I would refer you to Regulation 5(1) of the CAR 2012:

(1) An employer must not undertake work in demolition, maintenance, or any other work which exposes or is liable to expose employees of that employer to asbestos in respect of any premises unless either—

(a) that employer has carried out a suitable and sufficient assessment as to whether asbestos, what type of asbestos, contained in what material and in what condition is present or is liable to be present in those premises; or

(b) if there is doubt as to whether asbestos is present in those premises that employer—

(i) assumes that asbestos is present, and that it is not chrysotile alone, and

(ii) observes the applicable provisions of these Regulations.

You are presumably an employer so it is your duty to undertake the survey

Whilst you are correct that the duty to manage does not apply to domestic premises (or clients) the other duties under CAR 2012 do apply to "employers".

I also agree that Section 3 duties apply to employers and the self employed in this instance however Reg 5 is quite clear.

In this case the "employer" is the PC. There is aduty to identify the type and condition of ACMs in the premises. As the domestic householder has no duty that duty then passes to the employer (or self employed person) undertaking work within the premises.

Paragraph 148 of L143 provides guidance:

Before carrying out any work involving the potential disturbance of asbestos, employers should find out if the part of the building likely to be disturbed contains asbestos and, if so, the type and condition. This should include assessing relevant information, such as that contained in construction plans or provided by dutyholders responsible for the maintenance and repair of premises under regulation 4 of the Regulations (eg asbestos surveys or registers). If no records are available, or there are doubts about their accuracy/relevance, employers may need to arrange a survey and analysis of representative samples to determine the presence, type and condition of asbestos.

My emphasis on the bold type.

Edited by user 03 April 2020 17:21:36(UTC)  | Reason: formatting