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Julian Bissaker  
#1 Posted : 28 April 2020 14:10:58(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Julian Bissaker

Having just be advised that a member of the public has unfortunately taken thier own life on a premises that we are responsible for i would like to know if anyone has any experience in recording but not neccessarily reporting and any suggestive actions. I feel that we must take reasonable steps to create an environment where acts such as this can be prevented by making environmental changes. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

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Kim Hedges on 05/05/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#2 Posted : 28 April 2020 14:20:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Those determined to take their own life succeed regardless of what we try to do.

All you can do is ensure as far as is resonably practicable the site is secure to prevent intrusion.

thanks 6 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 28/04/2020(UTC), Julian Bissaker on 29/04/2020(UTC), Kim Hedges on 05/05/2020(UTC), A Kurdziel on 28/04/2020(UTC), Julian Bissaker on 29/04/2020(UTC), Kim Hedges on 05/05/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 28 April 2020 14:20:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Those determined to take their own life succeed regardless of what we try to do.

All you can do is ensure as far as is resonably practicable the site is secure to prevent intrusion.

thanks 6 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 28/04/2020(UTC), Julian Bissaker on 29/04/2020(UTC), Kim Hedges on 05/05/2020(UTC), A Kurdziel on 28/04/2020(UTC), Julian Bissaker on 29/04/2020(UTC), Kim Hedges on 05/05/2020(UTC)
Julian Bissaker  
#4 Posted : 28 April 2020 14:32:02(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Julian Bissaker

This was my trail of thought to be honest but with this premises being a public car park and having metal railings on stairwells etc. it does become difficult to balance what is reasonable. CCTV, regular security patrols and other users albeit a tad quiet at the moment didn't prevent this individual, and this was just after midday. Reasonable recommendations have been discussed but the priority was with regards to high level fencing on the top floor to prevent those who try to jump. I guess i am trying to prevent the unpreventable and like Roundtuit said, they will succeed regardless.

A Kurdziel  
#5 Posted : 28 April 2020 15:57:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

I think that the general; idea is to make these places-“unattractive” to suicide attempts. You don’t leave things lying about that might be used help people take their own lives to or provide access to high places. Regular patrols and the like discourage suicides: people who wish to take their own lives tend to want privacy but as Roundtuit said if someone is determined to take their life they will do so. This poor guy climbed a 90 m chimney https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/dec/27/family-reveal-anguish-of-man-phil-longcake-who-died-in-carlisle-chimney-tragedy  to do it.

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Julian Bissaker on 29/04/2020(UTC), Kim Hedges on 05/05/2020(UTC)
FHS  
#6 Posted : 29 April 2020 11:14:06(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
FHS

Difficult to prevent any one who is determinmed to follow through with it, but we carried out some training with the Samaritans with our staff who may come across someone, to give them the skills,knowledge and confidence to try to intervene and prevent them jumping. We also placed "posters" with contact details of the Samaritans in places where we have had previous incidents Finally we put in place post incident support for staff who witnessed an incident or intervened
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Kim Hedges on 05/05/2020(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#7 Posted : 29 April 2020 13:54:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

FHS 
I am slightly concerned if we start giving training to staff to enable them to try to stop a suicide and then they fail, it will have a serious psychological impact on them. I can understand why people for example in the emergency services would need such training- to a certain extent this is what they signed up for but expecting for example a typical security guard to be able to react like this and then expect them not to be traumatised is a bit unfair. Read up the impact on train drivers who have to deal (or not deal) with suicides. A significant number are so traumatised by the experience that they jack the job in. We can’t over burden our own staff.
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webstar on 30/04/2020(UTC), Kim Hedges on 05/05/2020(UTC)
Xavier123  
#8 Posted : 29 April 2020 14:24:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Xavier123

There is some formal guidance and publications on the subject from 2015. Its not aimed at employers but rather local public health authorities but it may still be useful to read through and take on board.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/suicide-prevention-suicides-in-public-places

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Kim Hedges on 05/05/2020(UTC)
Kate  
#9 Posted : 30 April 2020 05:27:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

I don't believe it is the training that results in the trauma but the suicide itself.

An untrained person may be in an even worse position, feeling guilt that they didn't know what to do and may have handled it badly.

The training should include recognising that your efforts may not be successful and considering the effects on yourself.

This topic is covered within the Mental Health First Aid syllabus.  For me this training gave me confidence that I would have some idea what to do as well as what not to do, instead of having to make it up as I went along.  It also included recognition that even the best efforts may not be successful.

This is analogous to first aid for cardiac arrest, where first aiders are taught what to do, but also told their efforts may very well not be successful and to get support themselves afterwards.

Thankfully I haven't been put to the test in either scenario but in both cases I much prefer knowing what to do to the prospect of either standing by helplessly or making things worse in a real emergency.

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adrian.devine on 30/04/2020(UTC), Kim Hedges on 05/05/2020(UTC)
DaveDowan  
#10 Posted : 30 April 2020 08:27:32(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
DaveDowan

Hi Julian 

sorry to hera that this has happend on your site, 2 points 

1. what is teh working environment ? ( i worked in a company which had high telecoms struvtures and we did indeed put in physical measue to prevet access , this was in some part tp prevent suicide ) 

2. companies like TFL do engage withe the Samaritans to train staff to tryRegards  and spot and council those who they feel may be attempting suicide 

Regards Dave

Roundtuit  
#11 Posted : 30 April 2020 12:56:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: DaveDowan Go to Quoted Post
what is teh working environment ?
post 3

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Kim Hedges on 05/05/2020(UTC), Kim Hedges on 05/05/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#12 Posted : 30 April 2020 12:56:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: DaveDowan Go to Quoted Post
what is teh working environment ?
post 3

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Kim Hedges on 05/05/2020(UTC), Kim Hedges on 05/05/2020(UTC)
peter gotch  
#13 Posted : 30 April 2020 18:25:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Julian

There are published standards that give clear guidance on the parameters that fencing should meet in a range of different scenarios.

So, as example for highways it's all in MCHW - Major Contracts for Highways Works jointly published by Highways England and its counterparts in the other 3 countries in the UK. 

The built environment such as a multistorey car park covered in some parallel document.

None of the standards is designed to prevent 100% of those determined from falling. All comes down to looking at the case law on Occupiers' Liability - guidance available on that too, including some aimed at making sure that we don't overdo the protective measures, though perhaps that isn't a big issue with what might be a concrete carbuncle!

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Kim Hedges on 05/05/2020(UTC)
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