Hi

with yesterdays IOSH news announcment that the HSE are saying do not use KN95 masks as PPE I was wondering if it is ok to use these as COVID-19 face coverings?

These and surgical masks are the only masks currently svailable from my PPE supplier,  work in construction where we are reopening sites and many people want to cover their face when within 2 meters of others (shops, occasional times onsite)

https://www.ioshmagazine.com/2020/06/12/safety-regulator-warns-against-kn95-facemask 

I get that they do not control dust etc so therefore should not be used as PPE as they do not have valid testing etc but I see face coverings as a seperate thing (considering the government are alowing you to use a scarf to cover your face)

I just dont want the nice HSE inpsector coming to one of my sites and serving a notice on us for using rubbish masks (we have a certificate supplied with them by our supplier but when you read the article it would suggest this is probably fake)

There is obviously an issue here in scotland (perhaps the whole of the UK) as construction can only get their hands on these KN95 masks or surgical masks - there are no FFP3 masks in stockists yet

looking for help and guidance on this please

Edited by user 13 June 2020 18:28:22(UTC)  | Reason: ffs

Originally Posted by: gramsay

I think we have to persevere though or we'll have to control the hazard in some of the ways our risk assessment presumably ruled out due to disproportionate cost...

Can I emphasise that the statement there was tongue-in-cheek ;) I know that doesn't come across well in text sometimes...

Also: 2020 and STILL no edit function?

The definition of face coverings is a legal black hole.  Under The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Wearing of Face Coverings on Public Transport) (England) Regulations 2020 a “face covering” means a covering of any type which covers a person’s nose and mouth; the is no definition as to what sort of cloth, or density is required. Nor is there any definition of how effective the face covering resembling a standard. Guidance(How to wear and make a cloth face covering) published on 4th June states that- A cloth face covering should cover your mouth and nose while allowing you to breathe comfortably. It can be as simple as a scarf or bandana that ties behind the head.

It does not preclude the use of other types of face covering as long as the face and mouth are covered. The use of actually RPE type mask (FFP2 or FFP3) and surgical masks is discouraged as the government would like these to be available for the NHS and others in a clinical setting but it is not illegal to use them. Is suppose the N95 masks and KN 95 masks fall into the same category

I have noticed on my travels that numbers of people are used valved RPE. Nothing has been published by the government telling people not to use these but as people on this forum have pointed out these masks might protect the user but when you exhale the valve opens and is likely to release droplets into the atmosphere.

The rules were obviously draughted on the hoof and have not really been thought through. One possibility is the government doesn’t think that these face coverings are really that effective and are only endorsing their use as a sop to public opinion.

KN95 masks are on sale in my local pharmacy at £19.95 for a pack of 5.  The pack has a sticker with a CE mark on it.  They are presumably intended for the general public as a face-covering for use on public transport and the like.

For me, the most wrong thing about this is that they are disposable whereas washable, reusable face-coverings would (a) be more economic (b) be more hygienic when reused - as I believe the disposable ones will often get reused regardless (c) cause less environmental impact (remember when people cared about plastic pollution?)

Originally Posted by: Brian Hagyard

Beware of CE marks! I was offered some masks the other week with an EC approval certificate from a testing station in China. When i checked their apporval it had been withdrawn! Unfortuantly due to all the cuts in recent years I dont think we have a Tradeing Standards, Port Health Authority or HSE services with the staff to verify all imports - so its down to us again to check what we are buying!

Check the spacing on the letters CE too.

If there is a bit of a gap between the C and the E this isn't a CE mark as we recognise it but is a Chinese registered mark that signifies 'Chinese Export'

https://support.ce-check.eu/hc/en-us/articles/360008642600-How-To-Distinguish-A-Real-CE-Mark-From-A-Fake-Chinese-Export-Mark

Masks are covered by harmonised standards in support of the Personal Protective Equipment Regulation EU 2016/425 for the application of CE marking e.g. EN 149:2001+A1:2009

https://ec.europa.eu/growth/single-market/european-standards/harmonised-standards/personal-protective-equipment_en

Toys are covered by a separate directive 2009/48/EC, standards and guidance

The ones on sale in my local pharmacy have a label with a properly formed CE mark and quoting the standards referenced by Roundtuit.

The approval laboratory is unfortunately often where most of us (without the necessary test equipment) can identify potentially fraudulent CE marked products. These laboratories should be based in an EU member state and as Brian indicates hold approval for testing to the particular standard.

One of the changes occuring in consequence of Brexit is all the UK labs will loose their accreditation for CE testing because they are not based in a member state. Quite a few have already opened facilities within the EU27 or entered reciprocal arragements with EU test houses regarding the upcoming UKCA mark.

The list of PPE New Approach Notified and Designated Organisations:

https://ec.europa.eu/growth/tools-databases/nando/index.cfm?fuseaction=directive.notifiedbody&sort=country&dir_id=155501

The company must be based in a member state - some of the larger players do have laboratories in China to facilitate global trade but as indicated have lost accreditation due to the switch from Directive to Regulation

Got that feeling about your post and concur there are those who never see beyond the letters e.g. those members of the public who bought "Hi-Vis" (that wasn't) from a certain discount retailer subsequently prosecuted by trading standards.

Personallly when it comes to claims of certification or accreditation "I don't believe it. Prove it to me and I still won't believe it."

This link posted above by Gramsay https://www.eu-esf.org/covid-19/4513-covid-19-suspicious-certificates-for-ppe. has just helped me identify a CE certificate for some N95s acquired in a panic early on as fake.