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kw87  
#1 Posted : 20 May 2021 14:58:37(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
kw87

Hi folks, the weather warning for wind in our area has got me and my colleague thinking about the chimney stacks on our grade 1 building. They are substantial and, should they collapse for whatever reason, could cause unthinkable outcomes.

It would be simple for us to run a drone up there and look for anything obvious, but nothing more comprehensive than a simple visual inspection.

My query is whether there is any requirement, under any legislation or guidance, to inspect these?

Our concern is what might be asked if one did fall and injure/kill an individual.

A Kurdziel  
#2 Posted : 21 May 2021 08:43:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

There is no such thing as the Chimney Stack(Maintenance of ) Regulations 1984 as amended with associated ACoP and Guidance: The law does not work like that but imagine what would happen if in a high wind the stack was to fall and injure somebody. The HSE would come down, dare I say it, like ton of bricks, using the general duties under the Health and Safety at Work Act.  Councils have been prosecuted for not keeping trees safe and stable in public parks. So I can’t see why a chimney would not  be treated the same way.  And then there is the civil liability.  

HSSnail  
#3 Posted : 21 May 2021 09:18:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

sorry looks like one of those days where i will be quoting regs.

Reg 4 of workplace (helath safety and welfare) Regs states

4A Where a workplace is in a building, the building shall have a stability and solidity appropriate to the nature of the use of the workplace.(a)

(a) Added by the Health and Safety (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2002 (SI 2002/2174) regulation 6(c)

the guidance goes on to say,

Stability and solidity

36 Any building being used as a workplace should be capable of supporting all foreseeable loads imposed on it. Loading can arise from a variety of factors including environmental causes (for example wind or snow loads) and those created by the activities associated with the workplace, for example use of floors by people or vehicles.

38 An inspection and maintenance regime, appropriate to the building’s type and use, should be determined to ensure that any defect which may cause an unacceptable safety risk is detected in good time, so appropriate remedial action can be taken. All inspection and maintenance should be carried out by suitably competent people. An inspection and maintenance regime does not necessarily need to be documented.

I think this covers chiney stacks - sorry about teh font - cut and paste messed it up.

thanks 3 users thanked HSSnail for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 21/05/2021(UTC), Kate on 21/05/2021(UTC), Dazzling Puddock on 21/05/2021(UTC)
peter gotch  
#4 Posted : 22 May 2021 14:21:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

kw - may be a Q for your insurers.

Fairly common for building owners to get buildings surveyed e.g. every 5 years, though like most such things the timings should be chosen according to condition, likely speed of deterioration and the potential outcome should something go wrong, amongst other variable.

So this means deciding not only how often to do inspections but how to do them, which might vary inspection by inspection.

As example if your structure was a trunk road, there are specific standards adopted by each of the four Highways agencies in the UK. 

Every 6 years (unless otherwise decided) every single structure on the trunk road network has to have a "Principal Inspection" which is more in depth that inspections in between.

At the turn of the century I found myself standing inside a quite famous bridge, which has voids inside each of its pillars. The standard for a Principal Inspection said at the time (though it has since been somewhat amended) that a Principal Inspection involved a competent engineer or similar getting within "touching distance" of every part of the structure. On that bridge this meant building a scaffold down each of the pillars - so putting quite a lot of people not only at risk of falling (as just one of the risks) whilst erecting and dismantling each scaffold but also exacerbating any confined spaces risks within the bridge. On any normal day for one or two people standing inside the main part of the bridge there would be plenty of fresh air or even a howling gale! But not in those voids lower down. I don't actually know what the inspection protocol now is for that quiet famous bridge but it might include remote inspection for some Principal Inspections. 

Same priniciples apply to your Grade 1 chimney stacks. May be you need to send the drones up sometimes but erect full height scaffolding from time to time to have a closer look, especially if your drone footage indicates concerns. BUTTT, your Grade 1 building might be in the middle of nowhere and you might decide that the population at risk was so small that the expense of building scaffolding was not merited, or at least not as often.

This is one for a structural engineer or building surveyor and not just any old engineer or surveyor but one with an understanding of how historic structures work. Your Grade 1 structure is VERY unlikely to have been built to Eurocodes and it is quite likely that some engineer brought up on Eurocodes might be horrified by its method of construction - yet it has stood there for possibly hundreds of years and nothing has fallen down in the meantime!

....and as to the population at risk you need to consider not only who they are but when they are present. If as example you let visitors in, this is likely to be during daytime hours. You might decide that if a chimney stack is going to collapse it will happen when there are high winds at night, or even high winds from a North Easterly direction (i.e. the direct opposite of the prevailing wind in the UK) at night i.e. when the visitors are miles away sleeping in their beds. So chimney stack falls down but nobody anywhere near, so hits the press but more a drama than a genuine "near miss".

Further, you might assess where the product of collapse might fall and fence off an area alongside a building rather than shutting down all access. Horses for courses (including courses of chmney stack brick or blocks).

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