Hi All,

My employers are wanting to offer the services of transporting goods to other company's on a multi occupany logistics hub site.  The method of transport will be Tuggy and 40' semi-trailers.  It is claimed that the whole site is private therefore a C+Licence is not required and certified in house tuggy training will suffice.  My view is that as the public have unrestricted access to the site roads, and often pass through, usually on foot or bicycle, to get to a local beauty spot, then it is a public road as per Sect 192 of The Road Traffic Act 1988, and full C+E licences will be required.

Any guidance or advice is most apreciated.

Edited by user 06 July 2021 11:43:14(UTC)  | Reason: Add info

Hi Andy - to play Devil's Advocate....why not ask an enforcing authority i.e the Police whether they think it is a genuinely "private road"?

On the basis of what you have written it seems to me that it is unlikely that the Police would consider it such, which is clearly also the view you have come to.

Then the next question is for your employer. Let's assume for the moment that it IS a "private road". What benchmark would your employer use to establish what might be training that meets the requirements of "reaonsbly practicability"?

Are the risks actually substantially less than on the public highway, taking into account the proportion of reported accidents of all severities that occur on low speed roads?

Rates of Fatal and Serious Injuries (as defined by the Department of Transport) per person mile are MUCH higher on low speed roads (speed limit less than 50 mph) than on e.g. motorways and dual carriageways.

If the enforcing authority is NOT the Police what standard of training etc would HSE or the Local Authority be expecting? 

Has your employer read the Sentencing Guidelines for health and safety offences where the actual and potential severity are each quite likely to be one or more fatalities?

I can understand why Flysafe's circs require. A full licence for insurance purposes, but most circs would look to a basic competency training and assessment.   the issue if it was not a private road would be to consider all the relevant rules, which leads on not just from licence, but testing, tacho, Driver CPC, Operator Licence.  Look at each and make the decision.  As soon as you look into what a private road is or can be, the trend legally is that it is public unless you demonstrate otherwise, and a simple sign is not sufficient to make the difference.  I would be looking for legal advise that I can use in my support rather than police who would be "guessing" and have no support to,you in the future.  

Hi Andy - your immediate advice seems sensible.

You could always point your employer to what has been said on this thread.

Not as if you have identified your employer or the location. So, unless some reader were to know who Andy14 is you could for all I know actually be called John Smith!

Originally Posted by: stevedm

no public rights of way, easment or permissive rights of way granted by the landowner do not make it public land or land subject to the RTA..just because people do it doesn't mean they have the legal right to do it...you need to check that first

tad confused that you may be saying permissive rights / private land cannot come under RTA?   That would be wrong.  Best example is supermarket car park, especially whilst open, has ready access to the public as a permissive right (whether you call that legal right or otherwise is immaterial) . It can and it  definitely does come under the RTA.