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Stoviejoe  
#1 Posted : 22 July 2021 12:48:55(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Stoviejoe

I'm hoping for some useful feedback on this subject. My wife has been diagnosed with tennis elbow by an occupational therapist and is signed off work. It is painful and debilitating. The diagnosis is based on the volume of work that my wife was expected to get through while preparing lunch for around 70 children, many of whom have mild to severe food intolerances, which necessitates the preparation of separate meals. She has four hours to clean the kitchen, prepare the food, serve it up, wash dishes, and plan for the following day. She is not permitted to come in early or stay late. There is no assistance, no food processor, no pre-prepared foods, and only a small domestic dishwasher. She is regularly expected to peel large amounts of root vegetables, mash potatoes by hand, make large volumes of sauces, and lift/drain heavy pots. The kitchen is small, cramped, and not set up for professional catering, i.e. not only is it lacking professional equipment, but there is no risk assessment in place or training available from a competent person. Whilst my wife has catering experience as a volunteer cook in a local charity (where she took some online training courses), and has previously worked as a waitress, she has never worked as a professional cook before. She has now been asked to attend a meeting, at which (she has been advised) her employer may choose to end her employment on the grounds of capability. Should this happen, not only will my wife be out of work with a chronic injury that could affect her for years, but the cycle seems likely to continue with the next cook they place in this situation. Can anyone advise what should have been put in place for this role?

HSSnail  
#2 Posted : 22 July 2021 14:58:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Sorry to here about your wifes ill health. Unfortunatly even though you have suppled what seems like a lot of information, i can only give very general advice, the work should have been risk assesesed and if there were 5 or more emplyees the significant findings should have been recorded. Without knowing a lot more facts its difficult to say more.

Sounds like you may need the help of a solitor on this one.

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Stoviejoe on 22/07/2021(UTC)
peter gotch  
#3 Posted : 22 July 2021 15:10:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi StovieJoe

Your question is possibly problematic in terms of a reply due to Rule 9 of these Forums:

9. Discussion of potential or actual legal proceedings is prohibited on the public discussion forums. 9.1. Public inquiries, including where IOSH is a party to the inquiry, may be discussed on the Members’ Forum. 9.2. Information that has been intentionally released, for example to alert others to a particular hazard or fact, can also be discussed in the IOSH Members’ Forum.

9.1 and 9.2 don't really seem to apply to the scenario you describe.

It appears from your posting that your wife is an employee, in which case the first question should possibly be whether her condition is a reportable disease under Regulation 8 of the Reporting of Injuries, Diseases and Dangerous Occurrences Regulations 2013 The Reporting of Injuries, Diseases and Dangerous Occurrences Regulations 2013 (legislation.gov.uk) where her employer would be the "responsible person" as defined in RIDDOR.

Occupational diseases

8.  Where, in relation to a person at work, the responsible person receives a diagnosis of—

(a) Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, where the person’s work involves regular use of percussive or vibrating tools;

(b) cramp in the hand or forearm, where the person’s work involves prolonged periods of repetitive movement of the fingers, hand or arm;

(c)..........;

(d) .........;

(e)........... or

(f) tendonitis or tenosynovitis in the hand or forearm, where the person’s work is physically demanding and involves frequent, repetitive movements,

the responsible person must follow the reporting procedure, subject to regulations 14 and 15.

On the basis of your description it sounds like (f) would apply assuming the condition in the elbow(s) extends into the forearm(s) and is clearly linked in the diagnosis to the nature of your wife's work. (b) is less likely and (a) more unlikely.

But "diagnosis" is a defined term in RIDDOR:

"diagnosis” means a registered medical practitioner's identification (in writing, where it pertains to an employee) of—

(a) new symptoms; or

(b) symptoms which have significantly worsened;

....so you would need to check whether the occupational therapist is a "registered medical practitioner".

You have worked out for yourself that this work should have been subject to "suitable and sufficient" risk assessment, which should in turn have pointed to some measures to mitigate the risks.

When my mother was cook and caterer for similar numbers in the 1970s one of the simple things she had at her disposal was a rumbling machine which did most of the peeling of the potatoes, so the technology is not rocket science.

If this is reported under RIDDOR there is quite a good chance that the regulator would investigate for the simple reason that not many reportable diseases are reported - a mixture of the limits of what is reportable unde RIDDOR and high levels of underreporting of incidents that ARE reportable.

So, perhaps the first Q is whether the condition has been reported and if not, why not?

Feel free to private message me if you wish.

Stoviejoe  
#4 Posted : 22 July 2021 17:00:22(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Stoviejoe

Thanks for the response. Peter, I appreciate the time you've taken with this. The point is noted regarding potential legal proceedings, but I don't know if the situation will arise. 

I admit I hadn't considered RIDDOR and can confirm, to the best of my knowledge, that it has not been reported. Tendonitis may very well apply here. As regards the diagnosis, my wife received this initially from a physiotherapist appointed by the NHS, with whom she has a second part-time job. Due to the injury, she is signed off from this as well. Much later, an occupational health adviser appointed by the nursery concurred with this diagnosis after a lengthy telephone interview and stated that my wife is unable to return to work until her injury improves. Despite this, the employer has written in a letter that the decision not to resume her duties is my wife's, rather than an informed decision based on the advice of their appointed expert.

There appears to be nothing in place to risk assess the most basic aspects of work in this environment, let alone manual handling and repetitive strain. Tools, such as a potato rumbler, would be very helpful but would require investment and a possible redesign of the kitchen. Previous suggestions for improvement were met with a response that suggested that the previous cook managed without them. I'll feed back suggestions to my wife, including those from IOSH and the HSE, and review the situation post interview. Thanks again.

Kate  
#5 Posted : 23 July 2021 08:07:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Good luck with this.  

When an occupational health professional gives advice to an employer about an employee's condition, in my experience this is always in writing.  So there may well be a written record of the professional advice that your wife shouldn't work, and she may be able to get a copy of it as it is personal information.  It's probably worth trying directly with the occupational health provider first.

Kate  
#6 Posted : 23 July 2021 08:27:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

There seems to be a contradiction in what the employer is saying.  You can only dismiss an employee on grounds of capability if they are not able to do the job.  If the decision not to return is, as claimed by the employer, your wife's, and she is refusing to come to work when she is fit to do so, then that would be a disciplinary matter and not a capability matter.  They can't have it both ways!

Stoviejoe  
#7 Posted : 23 July 2021 09:30:11(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Stoviejoe

Hi Kate,

There is a written copy of the report, which makes the behaviour of the employer stranger still. They are pressuring my wife to attend an interview (actually a second interview) to discuss her situation whilst there is written evidence declaring my wife to be medically unfit to return to work, and two weeks before the review date mentioned in the report. My wife is demoralised, and may decide to hand in her notice rather then return to the same work environment. However, it seems likely that her employment will be terminated, and the health & safety issues will be transfer to the next incumbent. This isn't acceptable either.

MrBrightside  
#8 Posted : 23 July 2021 10:26:58(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
MrBrightside

I am going to play devil’s advocate on this one.

They are within their right to ask your wife to attend work for any interviews regarding the incident. It also seems as if after speaking to the Oc Health person, your wife has decided she needs to have time off rather than the Nursery telling her she needs to take time off.

Normally following any Oc Health reports, I would the get the person in (if they can) to discuss the results and any next steps. She also has a second job and would need to prove what job caused the injury.

I’m not sticking up for them, but why not just go in for the meeting and see what they have to say. They might just be annoyed that your wife decided she couldn’t work rather than them telling her.

 

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Stoviejoe on 26/07/2021(UTC)
Kate  
#9 Posted : 23 July 2021 10:29:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

That is blatant dishonesty on the employer's part. 

I can understand why your wife may feel like resigning, but that may not be in her best interest.

Has she been in touch with ACAS to understand her employment rights in this situation and her best course of action?

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Stoviejoe on 26/07/2021(UTC)
chris42  
#10 Posted : 23 July 2021 10:30:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

When she attends the interview, she should ask to see the revised risk assessment, that would allow her to continue working. Thinking about it, I would ask in writing for this to be made available to you before the interview. They can only say no.

I would let them end my employment (the employment of someone with a disability now!) also if she quits, any sort of benefits she may be able to claim could become a problem.

Even if you are not intending to make a claim and don’t feel the situation is good for someone else desperate for a job, you always have the option to report the conditions to the HSE.

Last person didn’t have a problem eh, mm why did they leave such a cushy job then?

Do they not want her to come in early as they don’t want to pay more?

Who has been doing this work during her absence, what do they think about work load.

This may be a nursery, but they should build in proper running costs into their prices, which includes H&S advice and provision.

These are obviously the things I would do, if you decide to follow this that is entirely up to you.

Chris

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Stoviejoe on 26/07/2021(UTC)
peter gotch  
#11 Posted : 23 July 2021 13:47:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi StovieJoe

Didn't take me very long to establish that this is a risk that a competent nursery might reasonably be expected to be aware of.

v055p00172.pdf (nih.gov) - study way back in 1998 - no, I wasn't looking for a study done in Japan. Just typed in a few words in google and up it came, referring to previous studies - not really surprising - any competent ergonomist looking at any job involving repetitive operations is going to be looking at potential issues and risk of what used to be given the generic term RSI (Repetitive Strain Injury) it's just that the nature of the injury and part(s) of the body will vary depending on the job.

Clearly whatever happens in terms of your wife's own employment that risk won't go away. So then it is about a risk assessment to work out what to do about it. However small the kitchen it would be difficult to argue that e.g. a food processor to mash potatoes would not be reasonably practicable. 

Good luck to both of you, Peter

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Stoviejoe on 26/07/2021(UTC)
Stoviejoe  
#12 Posted : 26 July 2021 09:39:40(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Stoviejoe

Hi all,

Again, many thanks for taking the time to respond. You've provided my wife with a degree of comfort in advance of a meeting she's not looking forward to. 

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peter gotch on 26/07/2021(UTC)
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