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Hi, my employer is thinking of going down the route of getting an employee trained to deliver First Aid at Work training to the workforce. My queries are what are the practical issues with this - Issuing certificates etc, training materals and so on? and does anyone have recommendations for training organisations that they have used for this sort of training? Many thanks P.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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If you are going to do this properly you will need to invest in at least one Annie (resuscitation dummy) and training defibrillator (mock defibrillator that pretends to deliver shocks but doesn't). On the other hand at least it is a good way of making use of the expired dressings that you have to throw out from your first aid kits.
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 2 users thanked Kate for this useful post.
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Rank: Forum user 
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I did mine several years ago through a company called Protrainings, based in Colchester. It was very good and I still use them, although I don't do that much training anymore. They supply all the course materials and you certificate through them. The course will give you all the info you need, including the admin side to run a successful business or as I did, train employees in a large company.
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Rank: Forum user
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Hi All, here are some of my concerns about going down this route - I worry that these businesses will make most of their money via the after-training admin and course materials, am I being too cynical here? Not personally knowing anyone who has done this (recently, at least) I do wonder about the quality / quality assurance of the training that might be provided What happens if the training provider ceases to trade - would we have to re-register or re-train our trainer? Do these sort of training providers keep as up to date with changes in 'best practice' for instance? Any and all help / comments appreciated. P
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Rank: Super forum user
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I don't know if you've already seen this which sets out the requirements for first aid trainers: First aid training providers - First aid at work (hse.gov.uk)
It's certainly important to have a means of keeping up to date with changes in first aid practices as these are quite frequent. Recently for example they have changed due to Covid, but they change also on the basis of research into what is effective and safe. The training I did wasn't to be a first aid at work trainer but just to train on use of a defibrillator (including resuscitation). This was back in the day before defibrillators were part of the standard syllabus. I got this training from the manufacturer and wasn't particularly impressed. And that was just a one-off train the trainer course which did not include any means to receive updates.
Edited by user 29 July 2021 09:25:12(UTC)
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Rank: Forum user
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I worry that these businesses will make most of their money via the after-training admin and course materials, am I being too cynical here?
I can't speak for other businesses but the one I use supplies all the course material, powerpoints, handouts etc for free - I have to print some out, there are books that cn be bought but its not a requirement. The only additional fee is for certification and that ranges from £6 - £12 per person, depending on the course. Hope that helps
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Rank: Super forum user
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really depends if you are just wanting to comply and reduce the cost of compliance or if you are actually looking to provide a trained person who could actually save a life...there is a difference from teaching a syllabus and practical application.. My view anything that involves providing care to a person even of the first aid variety, includes mental health, should have confirmed CPD/or registration and external audit checks.. One thing that hasn't been talked about so far is the liability and insurance costs...
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I have to undergo annual observations, undertake CPD through the company and training documentation is internally verified through their compliance department as well as externally verified via the awarding body. Failure to successfully complete any part of this results in me not being able to run courses until the situation has been rectified. Insurances are obviously required, but its not that expensive.
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Rank: Forum user
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I did mine via NUCO in 2016 which also gave me a L3 PTTLS qual to enable me to use it for training in other areas and courses. There is no requirement currently for "accredited" first aid training, however if in the unlikely event someone raises a concern over your training and an event in work then you could be asked to prove your qualifications. As long as my 3 day certificate is in date I'm able to teach, however I cannot request certificates from NUCO without holding an annual review session, but as i dont teach much this may not be renewed this year.
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Rank: Super forum user
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I would imagine there could be some great advantages to the business from having its own in-house capability. Flexibility to focus training based on actual risk, provide on going coaching instead of just sending people on courses and fitting training around work schedules.
Whilst I agree it is preferrable to be up to date with the latest guidance, the fact it does change quite frequently highlights it is actually not that critical. With 1st aid there is no right answer. Some guidance may change, but that does not mean what was said on the subject a couple of years ago was actually wrong. The main requirement is an ability to handle the situation and make dynamic risk assessments. Again, having training capability in-house would probably be an advantage if it allows relevant scenario training to take place.
Of course there will be issues to consider. But if it is the better solution from a risk perspective then our job is to make sure those issues do not become barriers.
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Rank: Forum user
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Originally Posted by: andybz  I would imagine there could be some great advantages to the business from having its own in-house capability. Flexibility to focus training based on actual risk, provide on going coaching instead of just sending people on courses and fitting training around work schedules.
Whilst I agree it is preferrable to be up to date with the latest guidance, the fact it does change quite frequently highlights it is actually not that critical. With 1st aid there is no right answer. Some guidance may change, but that does not mean what was said on the subject a couple of years ago was actually wrong. The main requirement is an ability to handle the situation and make dynamic risk assessments. Again, having training capability in-house would probably be an advantage if it allows relevant scenario training to take place.
Of course there will be issues to consider. But if it is the better solution from a risk perspective then our job is to make sure those issues do not become barriers.
Do people really think first aid guidance changes on a whim? Because a doctor got bored so they changed the guidance?
Since 2000 modern medicine / resuscitation has been evidence based. The resuscitation council only changes the guidance every 5 years. So saying ‘first aid changes all the time’ isn’t necessarily correct. It would really only change overnight if there was a huge randomised control trial that had significant findings. Even with this, guidance still may not change.
Fair enough, for some things there is very little evidence, such as using adult AEDs on children / babies. However, for other things there is a substantial amount of solid evidence out there. It would arguably be negligent to not follow this evidence.
Here is what went into the ERC first aid guidance:
240 doctors, nurses, scientists, researchers looked through over 150,000 first aid studies. They then debated them and produced the guidance on first aid. These are solid guidelines which really, should be followed.
If first alders just taught people anything then they’d still be teaching things that are no longer recommended, for example elevation of a limb to treat bleeding. This was removed 6 years ago but still some people are taught this (unnecessarily) on training courses.
To answer the OPs question, if your internal trainer is dedicated to the role and puts in the required effort, it can work great and save a lot of money. However this rarely works in practice. Personally I find myself in workplaces all the time where they already have their own internal trainer, yet they use me to deliver said training.
Good luck with which ever you choose.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Thanks SLord80. You prompted me to have a look at how guidance is being developed. Interestingly I note ERC update every 5 years but ILCOR is now being updated whenever new evidence becomes available. I think most updates are relatively minor. The example of removing elevation of limbs for blood loss is because there is no evidence of it being beneficial, not that it does any harm.
It is a shame to hear that companies cannot make in-house training work in practice. It does seem like a missed opportunity to provide better provision, rather than just saving money. I guess it is proves to be easier to send people on courses. Is it also because people are not seeing it as a professional role? I would expect any professional to keep themselves up to date.
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Rank: New forum user
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I have been certified in HABC Level 3 award in emergrncy first aid at work, recently my company asked me to deliver refresher training of firdt aid for employees but the disavantage is that they can not be certified.
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Originally Posted by: Pervaiz I have been certified in HABC Level 3 award in emergrncy first aid at work, recently my company asked me to deliver refresher training of firdt aid for employees but the disavantage is that they can not be certified.
Bear in mind that there isnt a regulatory document around the First aid training, you could "certify" them under your company umbrella as you are deemed as competent to pass on the information, but thats irrelivant in most cases. Consider a train the trainer course with NUCO or similar, it allows you to deliver first aid, but also the teaching part allows you to deliver other none regulated courses safely. Some people have the knowledge but cannot teach for toffee
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