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bigpub  
#1 Posted : 23 September 2021 10:15:36(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
bigpub

Where in RIDDOR 2013 does it state that asbestos may be reportable? I have looked and can't find it. I am sure it states this

Kate  
#2 Posted : 23 September 2021 11:41:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Are you thinking of this?  From Schedule 2 Dangerous occurrences:

Hazardous escapes of substances

27.  The unintentional release or escape of any substance which could cause personal injury to any person other than through the combustion of flammable liquids or gases.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/1471/schedule/2

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HSSnail on 23/09/2021(UTC)
HSSnail  
#3 Posted : 23 September 2021 11:44:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Kate just beet me to it.

peter gotch  
#4 Posted : 23 September 2021 14:47:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

One of those elements of RIDDOR where the lawyers could have a field day.

How much release of asbestos fibres do you need before they "could" "cause personal injury"?

Now if you are in the "One fibre can kill" school of thought the answer is easy.

For most of us the equation would be much more difficult.

Just as well that RIDDOR is very rarely enforced except as another charge on the charge sheet.

[At a quick glance on the HSE prosecutions data base, 33 convictions for RIDDOR 1995/2013 in the last 10 years] 

thanks 2 users thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
Kate on 23/09/2021(UTC), HSSnail on 24/09/2021(UTC)
HSSnail  
#5 Posted : 24 September 2021 08:02:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Agree totaly Peter - the regs dont actualy mention Asbestos its in the HSE web page guidance

substances which may be hazardous to health (eg asbestos, phosgene, toluene diisocyanate)

But it would be useful to give us more information.

Andrew McLean  
#6 Posted : 05 October 2021 09:23:19(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Andrew McLean

Originally Posted by: peter gotch Go to Quoted Post

"One of those elements of RIDDOR where the lawyers could have a field day.

How much release of asbestos fibres do you need before they "could" "cause personal injury"?

Now if you are in the "One fibre can kill" school of thought the answer is easy.

For most of us the equation would be much more difficult."

Your statment above reminded me of this, 

 https://www.12kbw.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Bannister-v-Freemans-MER-SC.pdf

thanks 1 user thanked Andrew McLean for this useful post.
peter gotch on 05/10/2021(UTC)
chris42  
#7 Posted : 05 October 2021 14:36:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Originally Posted by: bigpub Go to Quoted Post

Where in RIDDOR 2013 does it state that asbestos may be reportable? I have looked and can't find it. I am sure it states this

https://www.hse.gov.uk/asbestos/faq.htm

HSE think it does!

Chris

peter gotch  
#8 Posted : 05 October 2021 15:43:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Chris - HSE think all sorts of things. Some don't stand up to scrutiny!!!

chris42  
#9 Posted : 05 October 2021 15:57:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Originally Posted by: peter gotch Go to Quoted Post

Chris - HSE think all sorts of things. Some don't stand up to scrutiny!!!

Yep been there done that.

Chris

chris42  
#10 Posted : 06 October 2021 09:21:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

From the old now out of date guidance L73, before they improved it. So, despite the Legislation and ACOP changing, the intent for the escape of substances seemed to always include asbestos as below. However still a little vague regarding quantity in para 153.

Hope it helps

Chris

Escape of substances (paragraph 21)

150 The substances covered by this definition may be in any form: liquid, solid (eg

powder), gaseous or vapour and may include, for example:

Guide

Schedule 2, Part I

A guide to the Reporting of Injuries, Diseases and Dangerous Occurrences Regulations 1995 Page 51 of 92

Health and Safety

Executive

(a) substances which may be hazardous to health (eg asbestos, phosgene,

toluene diisocyanate);

(b) substances which may be either corrosive or potentially hazardous by virtue of

their temperature or pressure (eg nitric acid, molten metal, liquid nitrogen);

(c) substances which may, depending upon the circumstances of the escape,

present a fire or explosion hazard (eg oxygen, acetylene).

151 Examples of the kinds of incident involving substances which might be

covered by the definition are escapes arising from the failure or breakage of plant,

pipes, equipment or apparatus; failures of process control; the operation of a relief

valve or bursting disc where the escaping substance is not safely controlled or

directed; and spillages from containers and equipment.

152 Releases from plant etc during the normal course of operation or maintenance

(eg during sampling, packaging or draining of lines) that are sufficiently well

controlled to ensure that no person is put at risk would not be reportable.

153 The decision as to whether or not an incident is reportable depends upon

factors such as the nature of the substance and its chemical, physical and

toxicological properties, the amount which escaped and its dispersal, and whether

people could have been present at the time.

peter gotch  
#11 Posted : 06 October 2021 10:10:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Thanks for digging that up, Chris.

That paragraph 153 is a tacit admission by HSE that it did not really know exactly what the previous RIDDOR meant.

You could have a sample of crocidolite ("blue" asbestos) rock in a glass container in a geological museum and drop and break the container - probably releasing a tiny, tiny amount of higher risk fibres.

In contrast, you could drop a load of insulation material containing chrysotile ("white" asbestos) in relatively "friable" condition, so that it lands on a hard floor 2m below - probably releasing a large number of lower risk fibres. 

I guess that the first of these scenarios would not be reportable but the second might be - but ultimately a matter for a Court to decide whatever HSE says on its website!

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