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xbufro  
#1 Posted : 20 October 2021 15:41:55(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
xbufro

Hi,

I'm currently looking into our company subscribing to the new ISO 45003:2021. Is anyone here in a similar position, or has your company already integrated it into you OH&S Management System? What are the pros & cons of integrating this? Would love to hear some other viewpoints to discuss with my Director!

Thanks in advance.

Kate  
#2 Posted : 20 October 2021 16:04:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

I'm just envious that you get to discuss it with your Director!

I have made an argument for why ISO 45003 should be adopted in an ISO 45001 certified organisation (so as to have a structured approach to well-being that addresses the actual issues instead of just offering an EAP) but have yet to get any further with this.

Please do post updates on how it goes.

Alabaster  
#3 Posted : 20 October 2021 17:36:11(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Alabaster

Whilst I think its an excellent initiative I don't think it's going to take off as much as people would like, reason being issues potentially causing poor mental health seem to be tied to profits.... I think the most important conversation should be around - what are we going to do with issues when they arise - what's the end result, and - what are we trying to achieve Whilst I have no experience with 45003, I'm assuming the cons would be doing it for the wrong reasons and not doing anything when issues arise other than signposting people to charities. I'm intrigued to hear others experiences
Kate  
#4 Posted : 21 October 2021 08:43:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

The whole point of ISO 45003 is that you don't just deal with issues when they arise but take the same kind of preventative approach as you do for any other health and safety issue.  You don't wait for someone to be injured by work equipment before you provide suitable work equipment, and equally you shouldn't wait for someone to have a breakdown due to work pressure before you plan the work to keep the demands manageable.

A Kurdziel  
#5 Posted : 21 October 2021 09:15:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

I think that there of  is loads of potential for mental wellbeing. Think about it: how many employers use chemicals or involved their staff with machinery. Probably, no more that a quarter or a third at most but mental wellbeing touches every employer. A few years back I attended  a course on LEV at HSL and I got to talk to delegates on other courses, in particular mental wellbeing, which surprised me as it did not seem like a HSL type thing but the course leader it was big and stress would become “the asbestos of the 21st Century”!

CptBeaky  
#6 Posted : 21 October 2021 10:09:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

The problem I have convincing my directors relates to the causes of stress. As far as they are concerned we are a very relaxed company. Deadlines are treated as "wishlists". Nobody is ever disciplined for missing targets. We allow extremely flexible working hours whenever possible. We allow great liberties to be taken, such as the use of phones, listening to personal music, extra breaks, using the internet etc. To be fair it is a very relaxed place for the most part.

The issue is that a lot of stress and mental health problems are brought in from outside the work, and we make no efforts to help in these situations. As far as the directors are concerned, it isn't work related, so it isn't their problem. I have explained the knock on effects, but they aren't interested. They are concerned that it is none of our business, and we don't want to exacerbate any issues by getting involved, thus removing any "blame" on them.

One of the side-effects of this point of view is that people who naturally have high standards of work suffer huge amounts of stress about seeing deadlines missed, despite this system being designed around that happening. They feel personally responsible for missing targets that they were never expected to hit, even though those targets never *have* to be hit. Furthermore they feel that other people are taking the proverbial, despite it being allowed. These people expect all people to work to the high standards they set for themselves, and get very stressed when this doesn't happen. The directors feel that these people need to lower their standards, as there is no reason not to, but some people just are not wired that way.

For this reason I would never get the ok to introduce any management standards, let alone one that has such a large focus on mental health. It is a strange way of working, but it does work. We are highly profitable for a small company, we retain our customers and gain new customers soley on "word of mouth", we don't pay particularly well but have high staff retention, and those that leave, more often than not, return within 12 months. Hell, even I tried to leave for a more "professional" role but was persuaded to stay.

thanks 3 users thanked CptBeaky for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 21/10/2021(UTC), pseudonym on 21/10/2021(UTC), Kate on 21/10/2021(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#7 Posted : 21 October 2021 10:32:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Cpt Beaky

Pop Psychology time: as your company is sooo laid back, could it be that anyone who brings in mental health problems from outside  work is regarded as some sort of failure; someone who is so stressed with life does not really fit into our approach to work life balance…

The thing about stress which distinguishes from the other things we talk about in this forum, is that many cases there is no solution. No PPE no matter how well fitted will protect you from stress; you can’t train people to prevent them  being stressed(Resilience training makes people cry) and trying to deal with it “at source” is to confront the wickedest of wicked  problems.

A lot of this is about admitting to human failings and working through them, not simple problem solving

thanks 1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
CptBeaky on 21/10/2021(UTC)
chris.packham  
#8 Posted : 21 October 2021 11:36:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

For me the terminology leaves much to be desired. I am stressed. It makes me get up in the morning and get going. For me that is positive stress. Negative stress (I prefer the word 'strain') is when it all gets too much and can cause mental disturbance. Sometimes difficult to distinguish between the two of course - often just a matter of level and circumstances.

pseudonym  
#9 Posted : 21 October 2021 11:52:06(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
pseudonym

Chris / Cpt Beaky - and therin lies the very real problem - people are predictably similar but uniquely different - so most of us (perhaps excluding psychopaths) jump at a loud bang, but how many bangs reduce someone to a physical / psychological wreck will vary from person to person - what stresses you might motive me and vice versa.

We broadly know what increases or makes stress more likely, but we cannot determine what the 'workplace exposure limit' should be - and stress is but one of the myriad of (mental health) wellbeing issues that could be considered

And yes, I would react badly to the scenario Cpt Beaky describes in his workplace - just not for me, I like enough structure and discipline to allow me to work, but not too much - I suppose what I'm trying to say is its bl**dy difficult to hit the sweet spot for everyone

Kate  
#10 Posted : 21 October 2021 14:44:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Chris, this is why HSE define stress as an adverse reaction to pressure.  Pressure is what makes you get up in the morning.  Stress is when the pressure causes you harm. 

thanks 1 user thanked Kate for this useful post.
HSSnail on 22/10/2021(UTC)
Xavier123  
#11 Posted : 22 October 2021 10:40:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Xavier123

Morning all. I've just figured out how to login after months of being unable to even access the login screen.

But workplace wellbeing is a biggie, so I made the effort!

I am a big fan of the pressure vs coping mechanisms see-saw model. Hard to find an image but one is here:

https://prospect.org.uk/news/coping-with-workplace-stress-its-not-all-yoga-and-bean-bags/

The text that accompanies it is also spot on. I rather like the point it ultimately makes that too little pressure can also end up with a negative impact upon employees. Rather seems to fit the example above too.

thanks 1 user thanked Xavier123 for this useful post.
chris42 on 09/11/2021(UTC)
HSSnail  
#12 Posted : 22 October 2021 13:23:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Originally Posted by: Kate Go to Quoted Post

Chris, this is why HSE define stress as an adverse reaction to pressure.  Pressure is what makes you get up in the morning.  Stress is when the pressure causes you harm. 

Or as I once heard someone say - "Pressure is what makes you get up in a morning. Stress is why you cannot get up"

thanks 1 user thanked HSSnail for this useful post.
Kate on 22/10/2021(UTC)
xbufro  
#13 Posted : 08 November 2021 22:37:48(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
xbufro

Originally Posted by: xbufro Go to Quoted Post

Hi,

I'm currently looking into our company subscribing to the new ISO 45003:2021. Is anyone here in a similar position, or has your company already integrated it into you OH&S Management System? What are the pros & cons of integrating this? Would love to hear some other viewpoints to discuss with my Director!

https://192168ll.red/ https://routerlogin.red/ https://19216801.cc/

Thanks in advance.

Thank you for the replies

Bass900063  
#14 Posted : 28 November 2022 16:39:21(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Bass900063

Hi

I'm working with HR to implement ISO 45003 - does anyone have a gap analysis for this standard that they would be willing to share? Psychological risk is one of the biggest risks in our organisation and whilst we have some processes in place I know we have some work to do to manage the risk better (and more proactivelt rather than the reactive processes we have in place at the moment). I have experience of implementing ISO 14001 but I'm finding it difficult to get started with 45003!

Thanks

Christine

Rasput01  
#15 Posted : 17 January 2023 15:56:23(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Rasput01

I am currently in the envious position of all Directors and CEO being totally onboard with this. We currently have ISO 9001,14001 and 45001 and, whilst I am not looking for introduce an accredited 45003 MS, I feel the guidance and structure could well assist in moving mental health and wellbeing awareness forward in the organisation.

I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has a 'fully functioning' mental health and wellbeing' programme in pace. I'll also start a new thread specific to my question.

KR

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