I have just started work for a local council and went to their museum to discuss an issue with their galleries. The fourth floor is actually a mezzanine with a circular stair case and ramp for disabled access.  At the last fire  inspection they were told they should not use the disabled lift (from the 3rd floor to the mezzanine) - there is notthing mechanically wrong with the lift, and nor could they use a sled or evac chair.   This has resulted in a disabled ouncellor saying it discrimatory. 

With COVID they have not had a fire drill for some time.  In the past they have always had then when the museum isn't open so all staff were aware it was going to occur.

My questions are:

is anyone involved in a building with a similar configuration and if so how do they allow disabled visitors access while ensuring their safety in the event of an incident that requires evacuation

has anyone completed a fire drill where the general public were in the building being told  in advance it was going to happen but not to let the staff know and if they did was it effective.

Thanks in advance for any responses

Dorothy Beckett

Dorothy, assuming you are UK based, the museum should have had a fire risk assessment (FRA)completed. This process must consider the needs of vulnerable people who may resort in the premises, and of course access to the general public will mean persons with variable disabilities may be present 

It is really difficult to know the solution re the fourth floor issue without knowing much more. But the FRA should have the answer and lead to an emergency plan for the building which must encompass all persons. If you cannot evacuate all persons from the mezzanine , then you should consider restarting access immediately - ie tomorrow! - until a solution is agreed and implemented. 

The first steps might be to  look at the FRA and if the details are a bit scarce, I would recontact the person who conducted the FRA and ask them. Alternatively, a review of the FRA should be triggered by your findings

Whilst Covid was absolutely a good reason to cancel fire drills in 2020, the status of covid restrictions in the UK right now is not suitable to justify not completing a fire drill, especially in a high risk premises where members of the public may need to be escorted or assisted - even by showing them the way. I would be very careful as fire safety enforcement teams will expect drills to have resumed. 

Fire drills can indeed be announced to staff in advance. I am a great believer that where staff are informed when the drill will take place, and they are told that questions will be asked during the drill to check staff understanding of the procedures, most staff (certainly managers) will immediately look up what their role is or what the procedures are as nobody wants to look a fool.

Plus a drill is an extension of staff training, so why set up a scenario which may fail? Nobody learns, and some will be humiliated - that is not a great way to ‘sell’ fire safety. 

I can also see no reason why you cannot carry out the drill out of hours - i.e. immediately before or after business hours as to train staff, check processes, but not to inconvenience clients. However, the fire drill process should really be determined by the FRA & emergency plan.

I have worked at sites where fire drills are not possible in a conventional sense as a process being carried out must not be interrupted. Instead a programme of table top exercises for small groups of staff were carried out, along with ‘walk and talk’ briefings during a tour of the premises. So some flexibility is possible and if your FRA states its acceptable to do a drill with no clients, then this maybe the way to go

Please do come back here and let us know how you get on, but I really do urge you to restrict the 4th floor mezz level as soon as possible. Delaying due to anxieties over discrimination could lead you to further hot water with fire safety legislation!!

Hi

You mention a” a circular stair case and ramp for disabled access”. By circular stair do you mean one of those metal  tight spiral staircases as seen in those groovy sixties pads or is it a wide stone staircase which just so happens to spiral or is this a very old building (eg a castle)  with one of those narrow stair cases-useless in an emergency but preserved because of it’s historical merit?

Brian’s point about the ramp is also correct: why can’t that be used for evacuations.

Steve

1st appolgies for spelling - was rushing this morning and as i have stated before I am dyslexic.

We have a number of public buildings in the organsation I work for - most of which were closed during covid or had limited vistors with time controled entry etc. As such we reduced our fire evacuation practices, and some were run as virtual. Only just getting back into normal procedures now Boris has liften all restictions on visitors.

In the past we have also brought in "voluntesr" groups outside of working hours who are not familure with the site to test procedures. If you run a drill with the public it will only upset them and also be a different group each time. We think we pick up problems just as easy with our voluntears.

Thanks Brian...all is clear...just my never ending 'COVID isn't an excuse for not doing something'..campaign :)

The ramp will be fine to use for wheelchair users however there must be an alternate means of escape in case the ramp is blocked during an evacuation.  Is there a second ramp or Fire Lift with its own enclosure and communication?

Ramps can also be difficult for some mobility impaired people who don't use a wheelchair.  

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but that is how it has to be I'm afraid.

Case in point the Lady Lever Art Gallery , Port Sunlight built in the 1920. Some of the paintings are on a balcony overlooking the main gallery, and accessible only by a single narrow staircase. No lift, no disabled access, and   no alternative route.