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Philip Neal  
#1 Posted : 17 November 2021 13:12:05(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Philip Neal

Hi All,

We've had an incident where a temporary employee from agency has lashed out, put his hands around the neck of one of our employees and headbutted them. Luckily, there were no major injuries occured.

Needless to say this temporary employee no longer works for us, and the incident has also been reported to the Police.

From the company's point of view do we need to record this in the accident book or somewhere else?

Technically its not an accident.

Be good to hear whats everyone's opnion on this and how we should record it.

Roundtuit  
#2 Posted : 17 November 2021 13:27:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

HSE has guidance on this https://www.hse.gov.uk/violence/toolkit/reporting.htm which recommends recording incidents of violence

Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 17 November 2021 13:27:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

HSE has guidance on this https://www.hse.gov.uk/violence/toolkit/reporting.htm which recommends recording incidents of violence

Kate  
#4 Posted : 17 November 2021 15:01:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

On the basis that if the consequence had been more severe this could have become an injury reportable under RIDDOR (HSE guidance on RIDDOR includes violence), I agree that contrary to first appearances, it makes sense to record this type of incident in your accident book as if it was an accident, even though as you say it is not an accident.

stevedm  
#5 Posted : 17 November 2021 16:14:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

You should follow the decision to dismiss based on the incident with a full investigation...since you have reported it to the Police that takes precidence over anything else..

achrn  
#6 Posted : 18 November 2021 10:22:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

A number of posts here have made the assertion this is not an accident (or not technically an accident).  This implies a particular definition of accident. Out of interest, what are you using as a definition of accident?

I note, for example, that RIDDOR says "'accident' includes an act of non-consensual physical violence done to a person at work", so technically, as far as RIDDOR is concerned, this is an accident (though it may not be a reportabnle one - it needs to meet other requirements to be reportable).

I believe ROSPA's definition used to be something along the lines of a sudden event with negative consequences, unexpected or unintended by the harmed person.  This makes this event an accident (and also makes being mugged an accident).  I can't find ROSPA's current definition.

I would record it, on the grounds (and as already elaborated by Kate) that the incident is an accident as far as RIDDOR is concerned, and had teh outcome been more severe it would be reportable.

thanks 1 user thanked achrn for this useful post.
Brian Hagyard on 18/11/2021(UTC)
Brian Hagyard  
#7 Posted : 18 November 2021 10:48:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Brian Hagyard

For me the notion of "accident" dates back to old social services legislation - in 30 years of being an inspector no one could ever tell me who enforced the ned for an "accident book" - certainly not the job of an HSE or LA inspector. We were far more interested in Incidents,  the regs are RIDDOR not RADDOR where the I being incidents. Certainly we looked at acts of violance as incidents if they arrose out of the work activity. Key being work activity - so if two people got into a fight because of the football teams they support - its an assault just let the Police deal with it but not H&S. If someone punches a collegue because they are not working hard enough then as well as potentialy being assult its also work related so H&S. Im sure someone has already posted links to the HSE guidance.

OK so i have just invented my own regulation I is Injury not Incident - but an assault can still be an work related injury (is it Friday yet?)

Edited by user 18 November 2021 11:20:27(UTC)  | Reason: make it up as i go alaong

thanks 2 users thanked Brian Hagyard for this useful post.
chris42 on 19/11/2021(UTC), A Kurdziel on 22/11/2021(UTC)
Kate  
#8 Posted : 18 November 2021 11:59:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

In normal language, "accident" is restricted to things that were not deliberately intended.

If you are injured because someone assaults you, you wouldn't normally say that you'd had an accident (unless you were trying to cover up what had happened) but that you had been attacked.

Of course we don't always deal in normal language ...

thanks 1 user thanked Kate for this useful post.
chris42 on 19/11/2021(UTC)
stevedm  
#9 Posted : 19 November 2021 16:55:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

Yes it should go in the accident book..

Yes it is an accident

Yes it is a crime - and that takes precident - the IP may take a claim against the company for not protecting them against it...

Yes the company is liable for the vicarious acts of the employee.

The Accident Book requirement come under social security not H&S law and only mentioned by HSE as a vehicle to help with reporting under RIDDOR.

thanks 1 user thanked stevedm for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 22/11/2021(UTC)
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