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Steve W1  
#1 Posted : 07 December 2021 14:46:27(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Steve W1

Quick scenario

Some pupils playing in a school playground, one falls over and injures themselves.

The playground area had no issues, adequate supervision was in place. 

First aid was administered and the parents were called, because it was a head injury the parent decided to take the child to A&E to be checked out, it turned out to be a fractured nose, the child returned to school a couple of days later.

I don’t think this is reportable, what do you all feel.

peter gotch  
#2 Posted : 07 December 2021 14:56:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi Steve - agreed - not a "work-related accident". Hence not reportable. Children trip over each other when playing. 

thanks 2 users thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
chris42 on 07/12/2021(UTC), LancBob on 09/02/2022(UTC)
Herb  
#3 Posted : 27 January 2022 20:14:07(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Herb

No not reportable
Accidentia  
#4 Posted : 29 January 2022 11:53:08(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Accidentia

I would beg to differ from the views expressed so far.  Let's look at RIDDOR reg. 5 'Non-fatal injuries to non-workers'.  The reg. says:

5.  Where any person not at work, as a result of a work-related accident, suffers—

(a) an injury, and that person is taken from the site of the accident to a hospital for treatment in respect of that injury; ...

the responsible person must follow the reporting procedure, subject to regulations 14 and 15.

It is clear that the child was not 'at work'.  A work-related accident is defined in reg. 2 as: '“work-related accident” means an accident arising out of or in connection with work.'  Further:

In these Regulations, any reference to a work-related accident or dangerous occurrence includes an accident or dangerous occurrence attributable to—

(a) the manner of conducting an undertaking;

Now it is clear that supervision was in place and presumably the person supervising was 'at work' i.e. not doing the supervising voluntarily or on an ad hoc basis (perhaps a parent who had dropped by). Therefore, it is arguable that the accident occurred in connection with that person's work (supervising children) and the manner in which the supervision was undertaken.  There is no reference in the regs. regarding the degree of blameworthiness attributable to the responsible person before a report is made. It may be that the level of supervision in this instance was perfectly adequate in all the circumstances. In other cicumstances, the supervision may have been inadequate or non-existant. Consequently, the requirement to report does not depend upon the adequacy or otherwise of the manner in which the supervision was undertaken, the duty is to report.

On this basis, I would suggest the matter be reported.

Roundtuit  
#5 Posted : 29 January 2022 13:19:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

I would strongly disagree with the concept that work is involved due to supervision being present when a child in a school playground trips and is injured.

In the unlikely event your opinion was correct the HSE would be buried under an avalanche of reports.

There are thousands of "green paper towel" incidents daily and even filtering this count to be hospital attendances ONLY the figure would still be significant.

Roundtuit  
#6 Posted : 29 January 2022 13:19:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

I would strongly disagree with the concept that work is involved due to supervision being present when a child in a school playground trips and is injured.

In the unlikely event your opinion was correct the HSE would be buried under an avalanche of reports.

There are thousands of "green paper towel" incidents daily and even filtering this count to be hospital attendances ONLY the figure would still be significant.

chris42  
#7 Posted : 29 January 2022 14:00:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/edis1.pdf

Section 2 makes it very clear

So, if a pupil is taken to hospital after breaking an

arm during an ICT class, following a fall over a trailing

cable, the incident would be reportable. If a pupil

is taken to hospital because of a medical condition

(eg an asthma attack or epileptic seizure) this would

not be reportable, as it did not result from the work

activity.

This means that many of the common incidents

that cause injuries to pupils at school tend not to

be reportable under RIDDOR, as they do not arise

directly from the way the school undertakes a work

activity. Remember, in all these cases, you only need

to consider reporting where an accident results

in a pupil’s death or they are taken directly

from the scene of the accident to hospital for

treatment. There is no need to report incidents

where people are taken to hospital purely as a

precaution, when no injury is apparent.

John D C  
#8 Posted : 29 January 2022 15:53:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
John D C

Chris, If you had read further on in the document you referenced you should have found this: 

'What about accidents to pupils in a playground? Most playground accidents due to collisions, slips, trips and falls are not normally reportable. Incidents are only reportable where the injury results in a pupil either being killed or taken directly to a hospital for treatment. Either is only reportable if they were caused by an accident that happened from or in connection with a work activity. This includes incidents arising because: ■ the condition of the premises or equipment was poor, eg badly maintained play equipment; or ■ the school had not provided adequate supervision, eg where particular risks were identified, but no action was taken to provide suitable supervision'

Hence NOT Reportable

Accidentia  
#9 Posted : 29 January 2022 17:24:06(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Accidentia

In addition to what I have said above, it appears to me that the dominant, and indeed overriding reason, children were in that particular playground at that time of day was due to a work activity – teaching.  Indeed, I believe some teachers would go further and argue that play amongst peers at break-times is an integral part of the learning process.  Therefore, the children were solely there in connection with a work-related activity.

It is clear to me from the definition in reg. 2 that the requirement to report is intended to extend beyond accidents arising purely out of a work activity by the inclusion of the phrase ‘in connection with…’ and this instance would appear to be one such example.  This phrase can be found elsewhere in safety legislation to widen out the scope of a legal duty beyond that owed to employees.

Turning now to the aforementioned HSE Information Sheet EIS1 (Rev3) Incident-reporting in schools, which states:

What about accidents to pupils in a playground? Most playground accidents due to collisions, slips, trips and falls are not normally reportable. Incidents are only reportable where the injury results in a pupil either being killed or taken directly to a hospital for treatment. Either is only reportable if they were caused by an accident that happened from or in connection with a work activity. [my emphasis] This includes incidents arising because: the condition of the premises or equipment was poor, eg badly maintained play equipment; or the school had not provided adequate supervision, eg where particular risks were identified, but no action was taken to provide suitable supervision.

The above extract repeats the requirements of reg. 5, as highlighted, but then qualifies that duty by adding that accidents are only reportable if the premises are defective in some way or supervision inadequate.  In other words, the school (on its own judgement) has somehow failed in its duties.  That consideration of fault or blameworthiness is not reflected in the legal duty to report accidents.  Take that same scenario into a factory.  If you consider your premises up to scratch and your supervision of fork-lift operations adequate would an accident where an FLT turns over and a driver is crushed not be reportable?  In my view, the qualifier applied by HSE in their guidance is erroneous and misleading when tested against the legally binding provisions of the regs. themselves.

So, overall, we have a dichotomy between what the regs. require and what HSE say is required.  If a decision is taken not to report, in the event of query arising, then rely upon the guidance in EIS1 as the reason for not doing so but I maintain that, strictly speaking, the duty to report remains.

If anyone cares to advance cogent legal argument contrary to the above, I will read it with interest.

Roundtuit  
#10 Posted : 29 January 2022 17:36:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

The OP specifically stated "playing" i.e. not games/gym/P.E. nor undertaking outside study as part of the curriculum which indicates they were actually on a break from being taught.

This would exclude your "teaching" as "work" argument in respect of the question posed.

Playground supervision is not necessarily undertaken by teachers - the "dinner ladies" a.k.a. lunch time assistants, teachers assistants and teaching assistants often undertake such activity rather than the teachers.

Roundtuit  
#11 Posted : 29 January 2022 17:36:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

The OP specifically stated "playing" i.e. not games/gym/P.E. nor undertaking outside study as part of the curriculum which indicates they were actually on a break from being taught.

This would exclude your "teaching" as "work" argument in respect of the question posed.

Playground supervision is not necessarily undertaken by teachers - the "dinner ladies" a.k.a. lunch time assistants, teachers assistants and teaching assistants often undertake such activity rather than the teachers.

Kate  
#12 Posted : 29 January 2022 17:51:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Children play because play is the definitive activity and primary purpose of children - regardless of whether they are in a place of teaching or of whether adults think it may be good for them.

peter gotch  
#13 Posted : 30 January 2022 16:20:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi Accidentia

I think that you and I are probably in agreement that HSE guidance on RIDDOR reportability is not worth the virtual paper that it is printed on and that one should always default to reading the Regulations for the "horse's mouth".

Where we disagree is whether this might be "work-related". 

You have a reasoned argument to suggest that it might be, but my mind doesn't buy the argument (even though the logic was impeccable!)

HSE may have good reason to influence underreporting of accidents that may be RIDDOR reportable for the simple reason that they don't want to be swamped with information that is rarely likely to provide useful intelligence to inform how they deploy resources. Hence, their guidance on RIDDOR is full of excuses NOT to report, some of which are very dubious in my opinion. However, I think the guidance in the leaflet you reference does actually provide a reasonable interpretation of what the Regs indicate in terms of whether a playground accident might be reportable.

Kate  
#14 Posted : 30 January 2022 17:09:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

The key difference with the forklift example is that the forklift driver is working.  The children at play are neither working, nor playing for the purpose of someone else to conduct a work activity.  They are playing because they are children.  

thanks 2 users thanked Kate for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 31/01/2022(UTC), LancBob on 09/02/2022(UTC)
stevedm  
#15 Posted : 31 January 2022 07:06:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

accentia...Court of Appeal Richards v Bromley.  Read and digest...pupils of school age do take risks in play whether they are under school supervision or not...the question here was about RIDDOR and the defintions have been given (I think twice) which say not reportable...the chances of a civil claim for compensation as a result of an incident such as this would have to be proven on lack of supervision or any other part of it and any defence would reply on this precident... 

thanks 1 user thanked stevedm for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 31/01/2022(UTC)
stevedm  
#16 Posted : 31 January 2022 07:11:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

Originally Posted by: stevedm Go to Quoted Post

accentia...Court of Appeal Richards v Bromley.  Read and digest...pupils of school age do take risks in play whether they are under school supervision or not...the question here was about RIDDOR and the defintions have been given (I think twice) which say not reportable...the chances of a civil claim for compensation as a result of an incident such as this would have to be proven on lack of supervision or any other part of it and any defence would reply on this precident... 

The claimant had the Court of Appeal’s sympathy but sympathy was an insufficient basis on which to subvert the law of tort and it needed to be understood that not every misfortunate occurring on school premises attracted compensation.

A Kurdziel  
#17 Posted : 31 January 2022 11:11:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

In the real world the HSE is not that really bothered. What they want to know about are incidents where there might be something for them(or other enforcement bodies) to investigate. So a child being injured on some playground equipment is something that they would like to know about; Johnny  pushing  Henry over and breaking his nose is of no interest to them.  

thanks 1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
Connor35037 on 31/01/2022(UTC)
Accidentia  
#18 Posted : 31 January 2022 14:48:53(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Accidentia

Thanks to all of you who have taken the trouble to respond here.  I will endeavor to deal with each in turn.

Peter – You have succinctly hit the nail on the head as regards your comments concerning the HSE guidance and reference to the actual regulations.  ESI1 is guidance only.  HSE guidance cannot change the law.  I also accept your comments regarding HSE’s potential reasons for influencing the underreporting of accidents.  Unfortunately, we continue to disagree over whether supervising children is a work-related activity.

School premises are used for education.  The playground is a part of the school premises rather than being ancillary to the school building in which the teaching is undertaken.  It is a place of work in its own right not only for teachers and teaching assistants but also for ‘dinner ladies’ etc.  The supervision of children in a playground is a work activity, regardless of which member of school staff undertakes it, because it is a part of their duties to do so, within school hours and they are presumably being paid to undertake that work.  I cannot see how supervising children could not be classed as a work activity.  It therefore follows that an accident arising out of its conduct (negligently or not) is for the purpose of regs. 2 and 5, “an accident arising out of or in connection with work.”  ESI1 accepts that supervising children in the playground is a work activity or arises “in connection with a work activity.”  Were it not, EIS1 would not require the reporting of any accidents involving the supervision of children in playgrounds.

EIS1 makes it clear that accidents involving unsupervised or poorly supervised children are to be reported.  So we have a situation where an accident involving properly supervised children is not reportable but if the supervision falls below par, such as if a supervisor’s attention is diverted to playing a game on their phone, for example, and the same injury is sustained in the same circumstances, it is reportable.  That premise is, frankly, perverse and there is no provision under RIDDOR for HSE to grant such a derogation from the legal duty to report.

Kate – I accept that the children are not themselves working.  It is the supervisor who is at work and the supervision of them is the work activity.  The children are only playing at the school at that particular break time because it is ancillary to, and as I have stated above, potentially a part of their education.

Stevedm – The Court of Appeal’s decision in Richards v London Borough of Bromley [2012] EWCA Civ 1476 is irrelevant to the question posted by the OP.  That was whether the accident under consideration was reportable under RIDDOR.  The question of whether the injured child would be able to pursue a civil claim for damages is entirely another matter and if, as stated by the OP, the child simply falls over, no matter how serious the injury, no justifiable claim will arise.  Indeed, I had the unenviable task of arriving at that same conclusion and passing it on to parents in a case of break-time paraplegia on a playing field.  I agree entirely that not every misfortune on school premises attracts compensation nor, as a matter of public policy, should they do so.

A Kurdziel – A valid point with which I agree.  But the matter, strictly speaking, so far as RIDDOR is concerned, remains reportable nonetheless.

Roundtuit  
#19 Posted : 31 January 2022 15:57:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: Steve W1 Go to Quoted Post
The playground area had no issues

So there were no defects with the "workplace"

Roundtuit  
#20 Posted : 31 January 2022 15:57:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: Steve W1 Go to Quoted Post
The playground area had no issues

So there were no defects with the "workplace"

Roundtuit  
#21 Posted : 31 January 2022 16:07:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: Steve W1 Go to Quoted Post
adequate supervision was in place

There were no issues with supervision

Roundtuit  
#22 Posted : 31 January 2022 16:07:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: Steve W1 Go to Quoted Post
adequate supervision was in place

There were no issues with supervision

Kate  
#23 Posted : 31 January 2022 16:10:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

I don't agree that the children were only playing as part of someone else's work activity or for their education.

They were playing because they are children and that is what children do.

Connor35037  
#24 Posted : 31 January 2022 16:25:49(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Connor35037

Not RIDDOR.

HSE wouldn't be interested unless there was a failure of health and safety that contributed to the injury.

thanks 1 user thanked Connor35037 for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 31/01/2022(UTC)
chris42  
#25 Posted : 31 January 2022 17:08:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Originally Posted by: Accidentia Go to Quoted Post

EIS1 makes it clear that accidents involving unsupervised or poorly supervised children are to be reported.  So we have a situation where an accident involving properly supervised children is not reportable but if the supervision falls below par, such as if a supervisor’s attention is diverted to playing a game on their phone, for example, and the same injury is sustained in the same circumstances, it is reportable.  That premise is, frankly, perverse and there is no provision under RIDDOR for HSE to grant such a derogation from the legal duty to report.

Yes there is

Extract from RIDDOR

(2) In these Regulations, any reference to a work-related accident or dangerous occurrence includes an accident or dangerous occurrence attributable to—

(a)the manner of conducting an undertaking;​​​​​​​

This is asking for a judgement to be made by the employer if the manner of the undertaking played a part or not.

Therefore, rightly or wrongly it will be up to the employer (School) to decide if the supervision was acceptable or if it played a part.

A Kurdziel  
#26 Posted : 31 January 2022 17:29:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Health and Safety at Work Act Section 38: “Proceedings for an offence under any of the relevant statutory provisions shall not, in England and Wales, be instituted except by an inspector by or with the consent of the Director of Public Prosecutions.

It’s not about whether the HSE can grant a derogation but it’s about whether in month of Sundays the HSE or anybody else would bring criminal prosecution for not reporting under RIDDOR that Johnny pushed over Henry in the playground. They wouldn’t  that is therefore the  de facto law of the land if not the de jure law of the land (I don’t think it’s de jure either,  but it practically makes no difference)

stevedm  
#27 Posted : 01 February 2022 07:13:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

Originally Posted by: Accidentia Go to Quoted Post

The Court of Appeal’s decision in Richards v London Borough of Bromley [2012] EWCA Civ 1476 is irrelevant to the question posted by the OP.  That was whether the accident under consideration was reportable under RIDDOR.  The question of whether the injured child would be able to pursue a civil claim for damages is entirely another matter and if, as stated by the OP, the child simply falls over, no matter how serious the injury, no justifiable claim will arise.  Indeed, I had the unenviable task of arriving at that same conclusion and passing it on to parents in a case of break-time paraplegia on a playing field.  I agree entirely that not every misfortune on school premises attracts compensation nor, as a matter of public policy, should they do so.

You haven't answered the OP question - there is no basis in RIDDOR to make the report - you comment about employees and the area they work in is actually irrelevant to your argument.  You are saying due to the lack of supervision it is RIDDOR reportable - what you actually mean is this is a criminal breach of HASWA, as you have agreed there is not possibility of civil action why? - pupils are niether employees nor are they legal wards - if the child had been left unsupervised in a classroom completing a task using dangerous chemicals and  injured themselves I would agree with you...in the OP case if I agreed with you we would both be wrong...

I'm out...  :)

Accidentia  
#28 Posted : 02 February 2022 15:22:28(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Accidentia

Originally Posted by: Kate Go to Quoted Post

I don't agree that the children were only playing as part of someone else's work activity or for their education.

They were playing because they are children and that is what children do.

Of course children play naturally when left to their own devices. In these particular circumstances they play in a location and at a time dictated by the school. Their natural inclination to play freely is further restricted by rules prohibiting potentially dangerous games. Any general pushing and shoving amongst them may be moderated or 'policed' by break-time supervisors.

If there are no children present, the duty of supervision becomes redundant. They are therefore an integral and inescapable part of the work activity.

Accidentia  
#29 Posted : 02 February 2022 15:30:38(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Accidentia

Originally Posted by: stevedm Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Accidentia Go to Quoted Post

The Court of Appeal’s decision in Richards v London Borough of Bromley [2012] EWCA Civ 1476 is irrelevant to the question posted by the OP.  That was whether the accident under consideration was reportable under RIDDOR.  The question of whether the injured child would be able to pursue a civil claim for damages is entirely another matter and if, as stated by the OP, the child simply falls over, no matter how serious the injury, no justifiable claim will arise.  Indeed, I had the unenviable task of arriving at that same conclusion and passing it on to parents in a case of break-time paraplegia on a playing field.  I agree entirely that not every misfortune on school premises attracts compensation nor, as a matter of public policy, should they do so.

You haven't answered the OP question - there is no basis in RIDDOR to make the report - you comment about employees and the area they work in is actually irrelevant to your argument.  You are saying due to the lack of supervision it is RIDDOR reportable - what you actually mean is this is a criminal breach of HASWA, as you have agreed there is not possibility of civil action why? - pupils are niether employees nor are they legal wards - if the child had been left unsupervised in a classroom completing a task using dangerous chemicals and  injured themselves I would agree with you...in the OP case if I agreed with you we would both be wrong...

I'm out...  :)

I believe I have answered the OP question as set out in my posts above. I am not saying there is a criminal breach of HSWA at all.  That is a different consideration entirely, as is the question of a civil claim being sustainable under the given circumstances. The original question was whether the matter is RIDDOR reportable and that is where I confine my response.

And I'm out too... :)

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