Rank: New forum user 
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Hi All I'm sure we have a specialist fire safety peer on here that can advise me. I recently arranged for a fire RA to be carried out in one of our warehouses. The assessor is the Vice Chair of the British Fire Consortium so i would like to think competence isn't an issue. In the assessment he advised a minimum fire extinguisher provision (basically covering main inginition sources and fire exits) as well as additional smoke detection in the office corridor which would upgrade the alarm system from a MCP to a L4 M. I contacted our fire installation comany for a quote. This company always quote to British Standards (which are also reflected in HM Gov guidance). The quotes came in extremely expensive and on supplying the FRA to them, they advised that the fire extinguisher provision was woefully inadequate for what is a very large warehouse. Also, on quoting for the fire alarm upgrade, they quoted an array of additional visual sounders and heat detectors that were not mentioned as a recommendation in the FRA. On questioning the FRA assessor, he said he was aware of the BS/HM guidance but this would be OTT given the very low number of occupants (10-15) and materials stored (Pallets of water). The RRFSO quotes fire fighting measures/detection "to the extent that is appropriate" (based on a FRA by a competent person from what i can see). I'm never going to disagree with best practice standards and guidance and i realised they can be "referred to" in a court. However, on conveying this to the business they simply asked, can we not install as per the FRA recommendations? What are the thoughts of my Peers? Do we go off best practice and pay the price, safe in the knowledge that all angles are covered or is it acceptable to install as per the FRA competent recommendations? Any response by an experienced practitioner would be most welcome. Thanks Edited by user 26 January 2022 16:58:38(UTC)
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Rank: Super forum user
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Yes, you can do exactly what you want to - that is, as guided to by the FRA
However, enforcing authorities will expect BS systems (or a standard that meets or exceeds the BS) as the norm. It is possible to apply a variation to a BS, but a justification should be recorded in the FRA or fire safety strategy to explain the rationale
For example, pubs and clubs may assess the risk of evacuating 100s of drunk party goers to the street as 'high', so they will remove the manual call point by the front door and some exits routes to stop nefarious activity. They should justify this in their FRA which may include the provision of a MCP behind the bar so under control of staff Altering - or applying a variation allows operational and safety flexibility in real world conditions. But, enforcing authorities may not look favourably if the aim of the variation is to save ca$h, so take care
Similarly, the BS re extinguishers suggests (I think) a 9l water or 6l foam for every 200m2 of floorspace. If you have sprinklers, you may wish to apply a variation, but I would be cautious that if the FRA states you should have firefighting equipment, to go below the BS requirement without chatting to the insurance company is risky. The may reduce or refuse any claim siting failure to apply basic BS's
Good luck
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 1 user thanked Messey for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user
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This one of those cases of “gold plating”, where the main beneficiary is the company supplying possibly unnecessary fire extinguishers. Having just scanned the Fire Safety Order, I don’t see anything there that might reference British Standards or any other external guidance. The law is what it says it is and nobody can insist that they have overdeliver ‘cos they say so. They could challenge the risk assessment arguing it is not ‘suitable and sufficient ‘ but they would have to explain exactly why it is not ‘suitable and sufficient’. Enforcement authorities should also remembered that the Fire Safety Order derives its existence from the Regulatory Reform Act. This Act enables the government to use Reform Orders to essentially streamline certain legislation, for the purpose of reducing the administrative burden on business etc. In the case of the Fire Safety order it cleared up the messy relationship between the Fire Precautions Act and the requirement to carry out a fire risk assessment under the Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations. This it does but the Regulatory Reform Act makes it clear that its orders cannot be used to create any new duties. I get the impression that some people want the Fire Order to create a Fire Safety regime beyond the scope of current legal requirements.
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3 users thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Hi, a fire risk assessment carried out accordingto the guidance document should be sufficient to meet your needs but every fire risk assesser will be different and have different views on everything. I don't know your place of work, you say a large warehouse, but what does it contain? I base my fire extinguisher needs on occupancy and risks. For example I would probably suggest a pair of extinguishers at each fire exit. They would be suitable for the nearest risk/s e.g. CO2 to be used on electrical installations, water and or foam where no electrics are nearby. I would also look for the highest fire risks and have another pair close to them if they are away from the extinguishers by the exits. The aim is to have extinguishers placed on the way out so people can decide either to carry on exiting or to pick up the extinguisher and tackle the fire. Priority will always be to call the fire service and sound the fire alarm first. As for the fire alarm company I would seek out other companies, tell them what the FRA requires and get them to quote for that.
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