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Dandal88  
#1 Posted : 01 April 2022 12:53:53(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Dandal88

Hello,

I work for a principal contractor. We have recently had a contractor (A), who subcontracted the package to subcontractor (B), who signed up to Contractor A's RAMS.

This week, Contractor A went bust, and subcontractor B have now taken the job on themselves.

Although there is no change in personnel, and the risk assessments are still relevant and ok, I believe that subcontractor B (who are now, by default, no longer a subcontractor but a bona-fide contractor working for us) now need to provide us with their own full set of RAMS as they have a duty to plan/manage/monitor their work, and we (as PC) have a duty to ensure contractors fullfil their CDM duties. There is also a relevant provision under regulation 3 of the Management regulations to review a RA if its suspected to be no longer valid - which, to me, the original RAMS can no longer be valid. 

I was going to suggest - for time being while they produce their own RAMS, to provide a covering letter signed by subcontractor B's director, stating that they have reviewed the existing RAMS, agree with them and have taken ownership.

Thoughts?

achrn  
#2 Posted : 01 April 2022 14:24:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

If the same people are doing the same work in the same way, I struggle to see why the same risk assessment is not appropriate.

I'd be happy with a letter from the contractor saying that although they did not initially write the RAMS, it accurately reflects how they propose doing the work, and they consider it suitable and sufficient.  Anything more than that seems like paperwork for the paperworks sake - essentially you'd just be asking them to copy out the same thing again with a different header on the pages?

thanks 1 user thanked achrn for this useful post.
Kate on 01/04/2022(UTC)
peter gotch  
#3 Posted : 01 April 2022 14:38:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi Dandal

You have overlapping issues of criminal and contract law here.

I doubt that it is as clear cut as you portray, UNLESS the lawyers have been very quick off the mark.

You as PC or the Client will have had a Contract with Contractor A.

In turn Contractor A would presumably have had a contract with Contractor B (whether or not written down)

In such circumstances, if Contractor A goes bust, you or the Client do not have a contract with Contractor B UNLESS somewhere the contractor documentation envisaged the potential of this situation happening.

[Some contracts do include defaults to deal with precisely the sort of situation that you have - but I think that these would be the exception - so the norm would be to draw up a new contract - possibly taking a risk - for all the parties - by letting work continue whilst all the paperwork is sorted out]

As for the risk assessment (or "RAMS" or whatever might be on the document) whether it remains valid for the purposes of criminal legislation, including, inter alia, CDM will depend on what is written in the document.

If it says that Contractor B will report to Contractor A who is longer on scene then clearly it needs attention.

But, if for example Contractor A managed to duck out of any supervisory responsibility for the H&S performance of Contractor B, such that e.g. says that Contractor B will report to you or the Client, then may be nothing has really changed other than the wrong name being on the header and footer - i.e. the RAMS purported to be in the ownership of Contractor A but in practice was actually owned by those doing the work who are still in place.

This could go horribly messy if your legal advisors are not happy with how you approach the situation going forward.

Pirellipete  
#4 Posted : 04 April 2022 14:20:49(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Pirellipete

Originally Posted by: achrn Go to Quoted Post

If the same people are doing the same work in the same way, I struggle to see why the same risk assessment is not appropriate.

I'd be happy with a letter from the contractor saying that although they did not initially write the RAMS, it accurately reflects how they propose doing the work, and they consider it suitable and sufficient.  Anything more than that seems like paperwork for the paperworks sake - essentially you'd just be asking them to copy out the same thing again with a different header on the pages?

I'm with you on this one,

It may be that perhaps any named individuals from Contractor A need changing, but it sounds like, Read, review, minor amendments and Contractor B re-badge with their logo

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