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KarenM  
#1 Posted : 18 May 2022 08:04:33(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
KarenM

I'm new to this forum & hoping that some of you guys will be able to sense check me.

We are a medium sized charity & we regularly organise events for other charities who set up an information stand (leaflets, pull up banners etc) & their staff are available to talk to the public about their services. Sometimes these events are on our premises, sometimes not.

It has taken me a few years to get all the managers and staff to do RA's for all activities that we do, and also to ask the external organisations involved in these events to provide their own RA and PLI, which we file alongside our own RA. Some venue's ask for copies of these, some don't.

A new manager has started & decided that external organisations do not have to provide RA, as they will be covered by our own. I disagree, but it has made me question myself. Am I being too strict? Am I putting too much 'red tape' in the way?

My main reasoning for getting RA's from them is that by getting these other charities to think about their H&S at these events, will likely reduce the risk of an incident / accident happening in the first place, and also it will go someway to mitigating our liability should an incident / accident occur, particularly if the incident is because one of these charities didn't follow their own RA.

What are your thoughts? I am ready to hear that I am giving our managers the wrong advice! Should we be getting RA from external organisations who are setting up an information stand at one of our events?

TIA

Karen

HSSnail  
#2 Posted : 18 May 2022 12:14:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Karen - welcome to the forum.

This sounds to me that this is covered by regulation 11 (c) of the Management of Health and Safety Regulations which talks about co-operation and co-ordination.

usualy i hate quoteing regs verbatum but on this occasion this states

"take all reasonable steps to inform the other employers concerned of the risks to their employees' health and safety arising out of or in connection with the conduct by him of his undertaking."

I think from your question that you have a number of employers doing different things on these site including the owner of the site who will have responsibility for things like Access and Egress. So while shareing Risk assessments is not an absolute legal requirement - for may its a good way of "informing" everyone.

thanks 2 users thanked HSSnail for this useful post.
peter gotch on 18/05/2022(UTC), KarenM on 18/05/2022(UTC)
antbruce001  
#3 Posted : 18 May 2022 12:25:15(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
antbruce001

Karen,

If we remove the term charity we get to either control of contactor or shared working spaces, depending on how you look at it. Eitherway, their is a duty on all parties to ensure they 'employees' do not put themselves or others at risk, and that their 'employees' are not put at risk from other 'employers' working in the space. To achieve this there has to be 'cooperation and coordination' between all parties. 

It seems perfectly obvious to me that both parties are required to do they own RAs for the 'event' and these should consider risks to their own staff and the risks they could pose to others. They should then 'share' those findings with each other, so they can coordinate the interaction to manage those risks.

Just because the specific example appears to be relatively low risk, doesn't mean that the 'cooperation and coordination' requirement can be ignored. How can you be sure there are no unacceptable risks if you don't ask. What if one of the charities decides to bring in a fire breather to attract attention to their information station?

Requesting a RA is perfectly reasonable imho.

thanks 2 users thanked antbruce001 for this useful post.
peter gotch on 18/05/2022(UTC), KarenM on 18/05/2022(UTC)
johnc  
#4 Posted : 18 May 2022 13:19:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnc

Is your manager suggesting that your charity take responsibility for all the others. If the others are required to follow your RA' s as your managers seems to be suggesting, has anyone checked that the others activities are included in yours. How do you know that the others are trained in the findings of your assessments? Your method looks perfectly adequate and keeps the responsibilities where they should be. Your method also means someone in the other organisations has taken safety into account which gives some assurrance to you. Keep to what you are doing, it is,simple and puts safety with the people responsible for the activity.
thanks 2 users thanked johnc for this useful post.
peter gotch on 18/05/2022(UTC), KarenM on 18/05/2022(UTC)
stevedm  
#5 Posted : 18 May 2022 14:03:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

I have had this before and a 'elf and safety gone mad' conversation ensued...violence was offered at various points ...(joke)

You are right to ask and get the RA, he is wrong - you have joint responsibility which will limit your liability should anything go wrong, otherwise your suppliers can just walk away and leave you holding the can for the full cost of any claim/ incident..as we know people are strange beasts in event scenarios and can do the stangest things..is he competent to make such a decision?

thanks 1 user thanked stevedm for this useful post.
KarenM on 18/05/2022(UTC)
KarenM  
#6 Posted : 18 May 2022 14:33:38(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
KarenM

Thank you to all of you who have responded so far & thanks for being so welcoming. I'm so happy I have found this forum, I'm sure I will have lots more questions...you'll all get sick of me!!

It's great to get some reasurance that I'm not being too over zealous, and that the processes we have in place are correct & don't need changing. I am off now to have a conversation although I'm hoping it won't get too violent! 

I think I am also going to suggest (again) that managers do the IOSH course (at the very least) so that I won't be the only one in the organisation going forward.

Thanks again

Karen

thanks 2 users thanked KarenM for this useful post.
stevedm on 18/05/2022(UTC), antbruce001 on 19/05/2022(UTC)
PDarlow  
#7 Posted : 19 May 2022 09:12:02(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
PDarlow

Hi Karen,

I too feel your pain in the challenges you face to have others get on board with what is ultimately their responsibility too. I would certainly suggest managers undertake IOSH Managing Safely as it drives home their accountability and responsibility as they have direct reports. Even then you may find that some don't quite take things as seriously as they should because after all - you (or I) are the safety manager. Good times.

In saying that, things have improved due to the overall safety culture improving but that takes time, effort, persistence and some awkward conversations. It is worth it when you get traction.

Good luck.

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