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Matthew_Orton  
#1 Posted : 06 July 2022 14:18:08(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Matthew_Orton

I have been asked the question by my HR manager for where we stand when it comes to helping someone gain experience who isn't actually part of the company. 

Basically, my company has come to an agreement to develop this person, (we are not a training company, but just assisting this person to gain experience) but this person isn't an employee (No contract) or required to come to site at any point.

Where do we stand in regards to H&S for this person? Personally i thought this person still comes under our umbrella if you like so i'd of thought we would have duty of care still. 

Again, quite new to role so all replies are appreciated.  

Kate  
#2 Posted : 06 July 2022 14:34:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

I'd consider this as being like work experience placements - for which the employer does have H&S responsibilities and for which you may already have some practices in place.

However if they are not coming to site then their exposure to risks at work will be pretty limited and just relate to whatever tasks they are doing (presumably low-risk ones) and any psychological pressure you put on them.

thanks 1 user thanked Kate for this useful post.
Matthew_Orton on 06/07/2022(UTC)
Pirellipete  
#3 Posted : 06 July 2022 15:00:18(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Pirellipete

To me it sounds as though the relationship you have with this person is the same as if he/she/they were doing a 'Distance Learning' course run by any company that provides Distance Learning.

On the Distance learning courses I have done, the provider has had no responsibilities or obligations for my health and safety, (DSE assessment, working environment),

If you are providing them with computer equipment and paying any learning costs/expenses, then I feel you would have some responsibility, but otherwise, I think not.

Obviously, if they visit your site then the normal site/company rules apply as they would to any site visitor.

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Matthew_Orton on 06/07/2022(UTC)
Kate  
#4 Posted : 06 July 2022 15:13:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

That's a fair point Pete.  However my experience is a bit different - on some distance learning courses I have done, the provider has made the effort to provide me with information about correct DSE use and the like as part of the materials they provided.  Whether they were really obliged to or were going above and beyond I wouldn't like to say.

peter gotch  
#5 Posted : 06 July 2022 15:18:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi Matthew - this is the sort of Q where I usually say "ignore the statutory duties and go back to first principles of common law".

So the question to be asked is "Who is your neighbour?" applying the judgment in Donoghue v Stevenson 1932 - you might have fotgotten the names but you might remember the story of the snail at the bottom of a bottle of "ginger" - which probably meant lemonade.

So, if what you ask this person to do could result in harm to them, they are your "neighbour".

Equally, if what they do for you could result in harm to someone else, that someone else is ALSO your "neighbour".

Your duty of care to your neighbour is to do what is reasonable to protect their health and safety - not vastly different to the duty to do what is "reasonably practicable" under legislation.

Doesn't actually matter what this person is doing, but since this is a health and safety discussion forum, let's use a possible H&S unpaid job to help with the person's training.

Imagine you ask them to review a COSHH assessment, remotely from home.

That they live in a hovel with a rat-infested kitchen is, frankly, none of your business as their notional employer - if you want to get them rehoused from a sense of philanthropy, so be it, but the kitchen beyond the scope of your duty to your "neighbour" - UNLESS you provide the housing.

As is what they do when playing video games and not adopting ergonomically sensible postures - UNLESS they are doing those video games as part of the training you ask them to do.

However, reviewing the COSHH assessment is within scope and probably requires this person to use some form of display screen equipment - so your duty of care DOES mean doing what is reasonable to make sure that the workstation is set up appropriately for this person to be able to work safely and some level of supervision - asking the right QQ, possibly getting photos of the set up - but NOT standing over this person 24/7.

However, if the person gets the review of the COSHH assessment horrendously wrong, this could place others at unreasonable risk - they are your "neighbours" whether your employees or not - so your duty of care extends to taking reasonable steps to check that the review is adequately done.

Then finally you can bring criminal law back to the table. If you are not doing what is reasonable to protect all your "neighbours" there will be some statutory requirement that you are breaching.

But doing what is reasonable to protect these "neighbours" isn't usually particularly onerous, particularly in the sort of scenario you present.

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Matthew_Orton on 06/07/2022(UTC)
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