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Highpants  
#1 Posted : 03 August 2022 08:01:09(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Highpants

Hi Guy's, looking for a bit of advice if anyone out there can help. We have had one of our Employees slip on the stairs of a Building whilst going for a smoke/vape during thier Lunch break. The IP is a Security Guard and we usually man a gate in this Building, the accident has not caused any major injuries but my gut feeling is that the IP will be off work for over 7 days. My question is this, is this a Riddor Reportable due to the fact it occurred during the IPs Lunch Break and they left the canteen to go for a smoke, I dont think it is but any advice would be very much appreciated. Tony M

Brian Hagyard  
#2 Posted : 03 August 2022 08:16:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Brian Hagyard

Ignore the fact that he was on his lunch break it was on your site and he was only there because he was working. The question you need to ask is what did he slip on. If for example it was a spillage well again you have a duty to clean those up so it would be RIDDOR. What is the step surface like? Slips where there is no obviouse cause can be tricky. 

Highpants  
#3 Posted : 03 August 2022 10:14:11(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Highpants

Thanks for the reply Brian, there was no spillages, Stairs were internal in good condition, handrails both sides and IP state thier bad leg gave way due to her boots being wet, didnt require any treatment, didnt go home straight after or anything but hasnt been back to work since and were now on day 5, basically thats all I have to go on. Tony M

antbruce001  
#4 Posted : 03 August 2022 10:25:10(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
antbruce001

Just because something is RIDDOR reportable doesn't mean something was wrong, or that you are not meeting the criteria of SFRP. With the best will in the world you can't prevent these things from happening. Having said that, if the RIDDOR criteria are met, then you must report.

It may be true that all accidents are preventable (in retrospect); but it is just as true that you can't prevent all accidents. 

thanks 1 user thanked antbruce001 for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 03/08/2022(UTC)
Brian Hagyard  
#5 Posted : 03 August 2022 11:13:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Brian Hagyard

Originally Posted by: Highpants Go to Quoted Post

 and IP state thier bad leg gave way due to her boots being wet, 

So why were his boots wet? 

As bruce says RIDDOR is not about doing something wronge - but the HSE today will look at if a work activity was involved. They may not be right in accordance with the legislation but thats what they do. The example i always give is if im walking down a corridor in the office and trip over my untied shoe lace and break my arm, its not work related as tying my shoe lace is not a work activity. If i walk down teh same corridor and trip over a torn carpet and brake my arm it is RIDDOR as the company have a duty to maintain the carpet. Not knowing why he slipped makes it realy difficult to give a definative answer. 35 years ago when i started my carrier as an inspector i would have expected a report for this. 5 years ago when i finshed as an inspector there is a good chance such a report would have been marked up as not RIDDOR

Highpants  
#6 Posted : 03 August 2022 11:58:05(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Highpants

Boots were wt because they had already been outside for a 'Vape' came back into the Canteen decided they wanted to go and Vape again, and slipped, Boots were wet from first outing. Tony M

Pirellipete  
#7 Posted : 03 August 2022 12:19:36(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Pirellipete

Personally, I think you're stuck with a RIDDOR,

'Off the record', there's more to this IMO, probably involving not using the hand rail and a possibly a mobile phone,

None of which you can use to deflect away from the RIDDOR of course, but it does gall.

PS.  Hope the person gets a full a recovery, (Just to show I'm not totally heartless) :)

peter gotch  
#8 Posted : 03 August 2022 12:20:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi Tony

In the past my usual response to QQ about reporting under RIDDOR has usually been along the lines of "if in doubt, report".

As has been said RIDDOR reporting does not equate to saying you have broken the law.

But in this case the key words are in Regulation 2(2) inclusive of (in particular) paragraph (c) 

(2) In these Regulations, any reference to a work-related accident or dangerous occurrenceincludes an accident or dangerous occurrence attributable to— (a) the manner of conducting an undertaking; (b) the plant or substances used for the purposes of an undertaking; or (c) the condition of the premises used for the purposes of an undertaking or any part of them.

From what you have written there was nothing wrong with the place where the fall took place.

So, I don't think that the incident is "work-related".

If you forget the bit about being on a break, suppose this security guard's duties include walking up and down stairs, then the accident is "work-related" if attributable to anything in paragraphs (a) to (c) but NOT reportable if none of the parameters in paragraphs (a) to (c) apply.

So, as examples

(a) if the security guard was carrying a large box ("in the course of their employment") up or down the stairs and they would be unable to hold onto the handrai, paragraph (a) would be relevant

(b) somebody has spilt or dropped something on the stairs ("in the course of their employment") and the guard then slips or trips then paragraph (a) and/or (b) would be relevant

(c) the stairs have not been maintained, thence resulting in the fall - bringing paragraph (c) into play.

P

Edited by user 03 August 2022 12:22:06(UTC)  | Reason: Clarification

Brian Hagyard  
#9 Posted : 03 August 2022 12:23:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Brian Hagyard

Originally Posted by: Highpants Go to Quoted Post

Boots were wt because they had already been outside for a 'Vape' came back into the Canteen decided they wanted to go and Vape again, and slipped, Boots were wet from first outing. Tony M

So its forseable that boots will be wet when entering the building - what safe systems do you have? Mats, slip resistant floors etc? Which could fall under Part c as Peter says above.

Sounds like a good accident for a root cause annalysis.

Edited by user 03 August 2022 12:24:52(UTC)  | Reason: Clarification added after peters post

antbruce001  
#10 Posted : 03 August 2022 12:25:17(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
antbruce001

Based on the additonal info, it would point to reporting (if/when 7 days is met). It could be perceived that  'insufficent controls to prevent a slip due to wet footware, when the floor surfaces are not suitable for such', i.e. no / inadequate floor mats at entrances/exits from the building. 

Highpants  
#11 Posted : 03 August 2022 12:42:18(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Highpants

Thank you all for replying, Pirellipete I think you have hit the nail on the head, however as you say we cant let this affect any Report but strangley this invidual has been trying for some time to get moved from this particular building. As for mats etc for wet feet, yes this is a very well maintained Staircase on a 'Nuclear Site' and has Mats etc at the entrance with signs to wipe your feet clean before proceeding, no dirty work boots etc the IP made a point about the Boots being wet so has obviously gone into the Report. But I think your all correct the safest option is to submit a Riddor. Tony M

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