Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
KCESmith  
#1 Posted : 07 September 2022 10:38:16(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
KCESmith

Anybody got experience of working with a boat yard marina , especially with working on boat decks at height without edge protection. Often the guidrails are removed during refurbishment leaving the deck edge open. The boatyard feels this is unavoidable during repairs but I feel this is a standard working at height situation . Appreciate any comments ?

John Elder  
#2 Posted : 07 September 2022 16:02:35(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John Elder

All you have to answer is the following and if the answer to any of these is yes you are then working at height.

Could you fall a distance liable to cause personal injury (That is any distance whatsoever) Excluding fixed staircases.

Is gaining access to, or egress from, such a place of work, either above or below ground level.

I the work being carried out upon a scaffold, mobile elevating work platform (MEWP), staging or trestles, using a mobile work tower, ladders or stepladders.

Is the work being carried out upon the back of a lorry

Is the work being carried out close to an excavation or cellar/basement opening

I would say the answer you are looking for is yes.

Kate  
#3 Posted : 07 September 2022 16:59:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

The two things (being work at height and being unavoidable) are not mutually exclusive.  So proving that it is work at height does not tell you whether it is avoidable or not.  They are separate questions.

John Elder  
#4 Posted : 07 September 2022 19:22:37(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John Elder

Kate of course is correct in what she has written, but I believe she may have taken the word unavoidable in your case in the wrong context. e.g., the removal of the handrails is unavoidable as opposed to the boat yard beleiving that working at height is unavoidable.

To expand on the answer that Kate kindly give as it didnt actually give you any advice is this. Is there a way to avoid working at height all together e.g. the equipment being lowered safely to ground level to be worked upon, or lowered into the ground such as a dry dock and fully decked out between the land and the vessel to prevent any possibility of falling through a gap with a safe engineered certified decking solution. (Normaly its just scaffold put up around the vessel which isnt the same).

In your case being a boat yard, I have assumed its a smaller operation and that you have the vessel lifted out of the water and sat upon a stand on the ground as opposed to its being in a dry dock on on the water and you are having to climb up onto the vessel and work with the hand rails removed.

The way I worded my first post is the questions I ask my engineers in order for them to recognise that they are actually at height. They are also the most common recognised engineering control measures used for working at height operations to be conducted in a safe manner.

You have to knowledgable enought to be able to pick which one is the most reasonably practicable in you case to be used and put the additional control measure in place to use such equipment e.g. licences, cerification safety harnesses and other PPE it goes on and on.

They are all still classed as working at heigh,t it’s just that these are the types of equipment normaly used as an engineering control method to enable such operations to be conducted in a safe manner, and each method also has additional controls required to be put in place in order to use the equipment safely.

Using any of those methods in my first post hasnt removed the need to work at height and I  am assuming there is no other reasonably practicable way of removing (Eliminating) the actual risk so you must consider one of those engineering control methods.

I hope that is a little bit clearer.

Edited by user 07 September 2022 19:26:03(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

peter gotch  
#5 Posted : 08 September 2022 12:55:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi KCE

In ye olden days we had the Shipbuilding and Ship-Repairing Regulations 1960 which said almost exactly the same things about working at height as the Construction (Working Places) Regulations 1966 except that what was/is called scaffolding in construction was called "staging" in ship and boatyards.

Both these Codes of Regulations got removed in stages (excuse the pun) with the bits about working at height being revoked simultaneously by the Work at Height Regulations 2005 [though in the case of construction the requirements were first moved to a Code of Regulations in 1996].

The old requirements were seen as being out of date, not least as they largely assumed that if you fall less than 2m [6 feet 6 inches when the Regulations were made in the 1960s] it didn't hurt - which evidence proved to be an absurd notion.

So, as already indicated it is about considering whether someone is liable to fall and then doing all that is reasonably practicable to prevent the fall and/or mitigate the consequences.

That might include removing the permanent railings around a boat "for the time and extent necessary" but in practice those railings will rarely [except for e.g. cruise liners and ferries] be at an appropriate height to prevent falls in the out of water environment. 

Which then leaves you looking at scaffolding or staging or modern solutions such as working from MEWPs etc.

P

KCESmith  
#6 Posted : 13 September 2022 09:48:27(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
KCESmith

Many thanks for theinteresting comments to my concern. Just to claify , this is a small working boat yard where boats are often stored in cradles as well as being moored to pontoons. Staff work on the decks in either situation and often the edge guide wires are in place but in reality offer little in terms of edge protection. Accepting that these wires are used by owners in leisure activities I further feel that they are not acceptable at a place of work. So in reality there is nothing to prevent a worker falling from the deck ( which may be many ,eters above ground) , Staging is not an option due to space restriction therefore prevention seems key but there is a lack of tether points . Just wondered if anybody had seen industry specific fall arrest type controls ( boatyards) . Many thanks again for your valuable comments - much appreciated

peter gotch  
#7 Posted : 13 September 2022 10:09:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi KCE = if you go to hse-guide-4-marinas-and-boatyards.pdf (campbellwharfmarina.com)

you will find reference to another British Marine guide No 2.

But this is not a free download from the publisher

Health and Safety - British Marine

who also says that a "CoP" is in development.

However, I think that perhaps you should revisit the assumption that providing staging isn't practical.

If there isn't enough space to provide some staging alongside a boat in a cradle then it might be very difficult to lift plant and machinery in and out of the boat.

The pontoons might be somewhat different depending on their dimensions, but then the potential fall distances are likely to be less with a good chance of landing in water (not desirable but a different set of risks to consider)

I've never dealt with boatyards, but I have heard just about every excuse in the book for not providing proper work at height measures on tight construction sites. Very rarely do the excuses hold up though there are situations where e.g. a scaffold would NOT be reasonably practicable.

Users browsing this topic
Guest
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.