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katecareford  
#1 Posted : 02 March 2023 19:28:51(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
katecareford

Hello all,

I wanted your views on if this incident is reportable or not?

An employee burnt their arm on an oven and a few days later developed sepsis and has been in hospital for 7+ days with the infection. Would you consider this to be reportable as it is a seven day injury or not as it could be argued it was poor management of the wound?

Many thanks

Pirellipete  
#2 Posted : 03 March 2023 08:15:28(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Pirellipete

But if he hadn't burnt his arm, he wouldn't have sepsis,

The medical staff could just as easily say the infection happened at the time and location of the burn,

just IMO,

A Kurdziel  
#3 Posted : 03 March 2023 09:35:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Ok, in law there exists something called the “eggshell rule” which basically means that if an injury causes much more serious damage than you might expect, for example if you hit someone and they have a particularly thin skull and suffer serious injury or even death, you have full liability in criminal  and civil law for the consequences of that act, even though you were unaware of the possible outcome of your illegal act.  So, if someone suffers what initially looked like a minor injury which then gets worse the defendant is liable for the final outcome.

But as we keep saying RIDDOR  is not about liability or culpability; it’s about capturing certain reportable incidents. Minor burns are not one of the things they want to capture.  The HSE says that:  “Accidents must be reported where they result in an employee or self-employed person being away from work, or unable to perform their normal work duties, for more than seven consecutive days as the result of their injury.” So I would suggest that what the HSE wants to know about is injuries not consequences.  Of course, I could be wrong and the HSE  might really be interested this week but I don’t think they will be.

Edited by user 03 March 2023 10:34:28(UTC)  | Reason: missing w rds

peter gotch  
#4 Posted : 03 March 2023 14:57:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi Kate

I am going to agree AND disagree with AK on this one!

Not least for political reasons it suits HSE to have underreporting of RIDDOR incidents.

So, they probably don't want to know about this particular scenario and are certainly very unlikely to kick up a fuss if they were to find out without being told.

But, HSE's views, its guidance on RIDDOR do not change the law of the land.

On the assumption that the sepsis is related to the burn (which is a reasonable assumption based on the narrative you have given), then as Pirelli says, if the burn hadn't happened, the sepsis would not have followed.

So, in my eyes you have a clear cause and effect line.

Minor accident occurs, minor injury results, injury is exacerbated and you meet one of the thresholds for reporting under RIDDOR.

Hence, my view is that this is reportable.

As AK says RIDDOR is not about liability but about collating statistics using criteria set out in legislation. If the HSE doesn't like that legislation it is much better placed to get it amended than you or I.

When I worked for HSE I had a somewhat similar case which ended up with a dead body.

- joiner (or carpenter to some) working in flat being renovated fell a maximum of 340mm where a floor board had been necessarily removed. So, he twisted his ankle. Then that injury was exacerbated when he stumbled on the edge of the pavement in the street. Then he ended up in hospital, an embolism followed and he died. The general consensus was that there was no convinceing argument to say that the embolism would not have happened if the joiner hadn't taken the initial fall.

In contrast when the painter fell 1.5m off a trestle scaffold, nobody had a firm opinion as to whether the heart attack which resulted in his death had occurred before he fell or as a consequence of the fall. We added it to the fatality statistics anyway.

P

thanks 3 users thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
Martin Fieldingt on 03/03/2023(UTC), Kate on 03/03/2023(UTC), MikeKelly on 04/03/2023(UTC)
MikeKelly  
#5 Posted : 04 March 2023 11:10:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
MikeKelly

Yes, as you would expect, the law has a latin phrase--novus actus interveniens-new act intervening, of course 

Important as pointed out by Peter and Andrew above.

[Latin: a new intervening act (or cause)]

An act or event that breaks the causal connection between a wrong or crime committed by the defendant and subsequent happenings and therefore relieves the defendant from responsibility for these happenings. In tort the chain of causation may be broken by the claimant (McKew v Holland [1969] 3 A11 ER 1621 (HL), natural events (Carslogie Steamship Co Ltd v Royal Norwegian Government [1952] AC 292 (HL), or a third party (Knightley v Johns [1982] 1 WLR 349 (CA).

Plus Robinson v Post Office 1974   

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