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Ballard-Sheriff30666  
#1 Posted : 24 March 2023 16:09:58(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Ballard-Sheriff30666

My company have recently acquired a company who maintain roof alarms on churches to protect the lead from theft. In some cases these detectors have been placed so that the technician has been using a ladder to climb onto a roof, walk up the slope and along the lead roof to get to the detector to change the batteries and trigger the motion sensor. I've attached an example of a church on contract and highlighted the detectors in red to explain what I mean.  

So far the team have considered various fall prevention and edge protection solutions but none seem like a perfect solution so im reaching out to see if anyone has experienced anything similar or has an idea we havent considered yet. 

Mewp / pav

  • Ground conditions may be soft & unstable ground especially in graveyard areas
  • Narrow gates and paths to access the church work position
  • MEWP could work where there’s a path around the church and the mewp can reach the detector – don’t want Technicians getting out of the basket

Mobile scaffold tower

  • Ground conditions may be soft & unstable ground especially in graveyard areas – could use boarding/ packing to increase stability
  • Out-riggers required when height is 2-3 times the min base width or >4m, these might be on unstable ground
  • Could use tower as access and edge protection to relocate the detectors (risk vs cost)

Anchor bolt with harness and lanyard

  • Drilling into building – damage to building façade, would need Faculty approval for installation – insurers think approval would be granted on grounds of h&s but there’s a raft of paperwork to do for approval
  • Insurers report 2011/12 lead theft was costing ~£1m per month in claims so roof alarms were given a waiver to install without a permit due to the cost saving
  • If we’re allowed to drill to fit the detector into position to protect their asset, can we do the same to protect our asset?!
  • Anchor point security
    • for permanent bolts installation would need to be by a specialist and then ‘pull tested’ every 6 (?) months (add cost to service visit) – ok for planned PPM but no good for ECO
    • for temporary bolts installation would need to be by competent person 
  • Need further investigations 

Edge protection (barriers)

  • Counter-weight ~22kg – how do we get that into position? Cant carry up the ladder and with systems with lower counter-weights there would be more trips up and down the ladder to install the system

Weighted anchor points

  • As above ~16kg counter weights that need to be moved into position
  • Max roof pitch ~50

Crash bags

  • Not recommended for fall heights >2.6/2.8m
  • Wouldn’t be able to secure the bags together around gravestones

Drones

  • Eliminates need to get onto roof as often, currently changing batteries every 12months, could this be extended and use a drone at some visits.
  • Would need to make sure date batteries changed is available for the next tech to know without having to go to the detector – write on the inside of the panel?
  • Doesn’t help at call outs or when batteries need replacing
  • Drone licence and training required

Relocate detectors

  • Still need to get to them in the first place but then safer going forward
  • Need to be in tamper-proof locations 
Roof ladders for apexes (porch areas)
  • Can get clamps to add to existing ladders to avoid the need for extra ladders on the van
  • Training requirements for install and use
  • If buy specific roof ladders needs to be to BS8634

Thanks in advance for any help

peter gotch  
#2 Posted : 25 March 2023 13:18:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi Ballard-Sheriff

Over 50 have read but without any reply so I will try and get some debate moving!

What did the company that you took over do in terms of precautions? - presumably you acquired them at least in part for their expertise in the area.

Are there networking opportunities for you to chat with some of the competitors?

Can you extend the time needed between visits to change the batteries, e.g. by using solar power as a backup and/or doubling up the batteries and alternating them so as to make both failing at the same time extremely unlikely due to the principle of the "bathtub curve"?

Some of the churches are probably Listed Buildings so there will be Planning restrictions to add to the other paperwork hurdles.

Access by MEWP may be difficult where the roofs are particularly high - to add to the comments you have already identified about soft ground, gravestones etc.

Have the churches already done all the things probably demanded by their insurers - watermarking the metal to make it more difficult to sell on the legal market, making unauthorised access very difficult, getting the congregation to report suspicious behaviour etc etc?

Good chance of getting acceptance for ridge mounted anchorages I would think, but probably requiring some coating over stainless steel so as to not detract from the roofline (particularly where Listed). Not sure as to what the recommended subsequent inspection/testing regime is these days. You could try Turner Access in Glasgow who developed some of the first such roof anchorages in the 1980s.

Good luck, Peter

firesafety101  
#3 Posted : 25 March 2023 13:57:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Have you thought about Hard Wiring.

Pirellipete  
#4 Posted : 28 March 2023 08:25:43(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Pirellipete

https://www.arcoservices.co.uk/services/fall-protection/latchways
lowerkoker  
#5 Posted : 18 April 2023 14:50:45(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
lowerkoker

During the repair process, I already spent too much money on various maintenance systems, including an alarm system. And I still need to buy various building materials. Is there anything on the budget?

Roundtuit  
#6 Posted : 18 April 2023 15:36:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Reported ForumScreenName

thanks 6 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
M.cooper.99 on 18/04/2023(UTC), RVThompson on 19/04/2023(UTC), peter gotch on 26/04/2023(UTC), M.cooper.99 on 18/04/2023(UTC), RVThompson on 19/04/2023(UTC), peter gotch on 26/04/2023(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#7 Posted : 18 April 2023 15:36:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Reported ForumScreenName

thanks 6 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
M.cooper.99 on 18/04/2023(UTC), RVThompson on 19/04/2023(UTC), peter gotch on 26/04/2023(UTC), M.cooper.99 on 18/04/2023(UTC), RVThompson on 19/04/2023(UTC), peter gotch on 26/04/2023(UTC)
paul.skyrme  
#8 Posted : 19 April 2023 06:03:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

Two comments.

1. I wouldn't worry about WAH, because it seems the legislation is being scrapped so you won't ned to worry about people falling to their death when working any longer, and ending up with the company or its officers being prosecuted, you'll be free to kill people without worry.

2. I would seriously consider modifying the alarms or changing them for a kind where the power source is remote and at ground level.

P.S. Only one of those is a serious comment, the other is a comment out of frustration with the situation I'm concerned will pan out!

thanks 1 user thanked paul.skyrme for this useful post.
peter gotch on 26/04/2023(UTC)
lowerkoker  
#9 Posted : 26 April 2023 08:39:55(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
lowerkoker

If you are looking for a reliable and trusted service to renovate both apartments and houses, as well as some public and commercial places, I recommend the specialists who lay the tiles in Dublin https://moderntiling.ie/. I think this is an excellent service when speed is needed , quality and at the same time not too high prices.

paul.skyrme  
#10 Posted : 26 April 2023 08:54:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

Post #10 reported for spam.
thanks 4 users thanked paul.skyrme for this useful post.
M.cooper.99 on 26/04/2023(UTC), Roundtuit on 26/04/2023(UTC), RVThompson on 26/04/2023(UTC), peter gotch on 26/04/2023(UTC)
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