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James H  
#1 Posted : 30 March 2023 13:18:12(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
James H

Hi

I am working with a large office block that used to have 100s of staff onsite until hybrid working came in after COVID restrictions were lifted. They used to use fire wardens to ensure that the building was evauacted when the fire alarm went off but this is now diffucult as all staff hybrid work including the fire wardens. They do not use a roll call system and say that it would be difficult to implement with the hybrid working and the layout of the building.  Have any of you have dealings with a similar  setup and how have they managed fire evaucation?   The amount of people on site varies depending on the day. 

achrn  
#2 Posted : 30 March 2023 14:12:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

Yes, it soiunds very similar to arrangements at my office.

What we have done is described in http://forum.iosh.co.uk/posts/t132518-First-Aiders-and-Fire-Wardens

A Kurdziel  
#3 Posted : 30 March 2023 14:17:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

If the fire warden’s job is just to make sure that everybody is out you could simply make everybody a fire warden.  People simply evacuate and near the exit there is list of floors or areas. The first person there pick up the list and as the last people leave the list holder ask  them if their area clear. In a building with a 100 people this shouldn’t be that difficult but it might not work if you have  a 1000 to manage.  

thanks 1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
HSSnail on 30/03/2023(UTC)
HSSnail  
#4 Posted : 30 March 2023 14:34:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Very similar to A - we have a document station at each stair well - 1st (trained person) grabs this - staff report to them to say which areas they have checked in passing and we have an overall co-ordinator from our onsite facilities team. Had a couple of tries since covid and its a work in progress - but without insisting fire wardens are onsite all time - which would be difficult as we dont pay them - cannot think of a better solution.

Sorry i should add our building was designed to hold 500 - occupancy since covid is 50 to 100.

Edited by user 30 March 2023 14:36:26(UTC)  | Reason: Added occupancy

Messey  
#5 Posted : 30 March 2023 15:47:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Messey

The only real way is to seek more Fire Wardens. Even then it can be a nightmare. Whther its a good idea to train everyone depends on whther you have scores of staff or thousands  Our Head Office can hold 5000 persons and that can be increased to nearly 6,000 staff when you include those from other sites have access to the building. Add to that, its occupied 24/7/365 to varying degrees and when busy, staff can be moved around to other floors, its a nightmare.

We used a 2 x phased approach. We amended HR policies so that volunteering to be a Warden could be used as a favourable criteria in staff's annual appraisal. This made the position more favourable & increased motivation and numbers volunteering.

Then we used a Zoom type training package as an interim measure and have since replaced that with e-learning. This is less onerous than a face to face 3 hour session we used to do ​​​​​​​I can say with 100% certainty, that we will not cover all areas of the building during an evacuation - but hopefully 95% or more. Just a warning, if you are struggling with ensuring reliable numbers of Wardens are available at all times, how about those who help with the more challenging PEEPs? If you havent considered that, it might be time to carry out a review 

thanks 2 users thanked Messey for this useful post.
Kate on 30/03/2023(UTC), TimBazell on 03/04/2023(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#6 Posted : 31 March 2023 09:55:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Question is what do your fire wardens do?  In many organisations there is an element of mission creep, where someone signs on as a fire warden ie the person who’s job is to check that people have left the building during an evacuation,  and it they end up as incident control officers who are expected to brief emergency services and initiate contingency plans or they are expected to  act as auxiliary fire officers and carry out regular checks on the accumulation of rubbish and making sure  fire extinguishers are in place etc.  at this point people say may well say no.

ExDeeps  
#7 Posted : 31 March 2023 12:20:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
ExDeeps

As above, large office now hybrid with no core hrs and in fact some 24/7 shift stuff. The replies above I agree with, something my FM lead is looking at is a system that can check security passes as they pass through doors, so it is possible to know where someone is and when they leave a part of a building. Currently my issue is actually the system knows which part of the building the card was last in - we've all left a security pass on a desk before. If we can get that sorted it's an extra layer but not a solution I would suggest

A Kurdziel  
#8 Posted : 31 March 2023 12:52:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

If we are talking technology the options are endless if you are willing to invest. There are security passes available which do not need to be swiped in as such, they just need to be on your person when you walk past the monitor. These can check who is in the building and where.  You don’t need a sweep for people, during an evacuation, they  are just checked out. At some point( 5 years time)  facial recognition software will  be able to identify all staff and where they are without any need for passes: if your face literally does not fit you don’t get into the building and it will be able to check you on the way out  during an evacuation.  If you go missing the system might be able to tannoy asking where you are:” Dave why are you not evacuating  with all of the other? It is in your best interest to comply Dave?”  or less  creepy you get a text or message on your phone asking the same sort of thing.

 

thanks 1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
Kate on 31/03/2023(UTC)
chris42  
#9 Posted : 31 March 2023 13:27:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Or on the tannoy ( think the voice of Hal 9000)

Dave, you have been in front of Jane’s desk for 20 minutes, please report to HR.

Dave, you have been in the toilet for 20 minutes, we are deducting your wages.

Dave, leave the H&S person alone, we told you this is not a SAD building in the winter or any other time.

Some people may take offence at being monitored so closely.

thanks 2 users thanked chris42 for this useful post.
Kate on 31/03/2023(UTC), A Kurdziel on 31/03/2023(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#10 Posted : 31 March 2023 14:56:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Yes, Balancing the need for security and safety   against personal freedom is a fundamental almost existential question to which there is no clear objective answer. The only thing that may cause greater disagreement is the question whether tomato ketchup is acceptable on a bag of chips.

 

PS why is the latest post on the Social Forum still Merry Xmas and a Happy New Year!  It’s nearly Easter, have we become so boring?

 

Kate  
#11 Posted : 31 March 2023 16:05:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

I don't agree.  There are circumstances in which the balance between safety and freedom may be hotly debated, but there are no circumstances in which tomato ketchup could ever be considered acceptable on a bag of chips.

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